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WI DNR says you cant carry on 11/19/10

littlewolf

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
349
Location
A, A
While reading the DNR hunting regs,they say you cannot posess any firearm unless unloaded and in a case on 11/19/10 bewteen 12:00am and 11:59 pm

It also states you cannot posess a rifle larger than a .22cal. in shotgun designated areas during the deer gun season! what about those who carry AR's for self defence and don't Hunt.

These regs don't specify where you can't carry? just says you cannot posess!
 
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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Well let's see them try to enforce hunting regulations on somebody who isn't hunting.

Do you know anyone who carries an AR for defense and who isn't living within an area on the USA-Mexico border? Seems a little burdensome without a specific sort of threat.
 

grinner

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
101
Location
Pewaukee, WI
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer10regs16-19.pdf

It is illegal to:
• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during
open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.
Note: An established target range means an existing location that is set up for
target shooting with firearms as its major purpose.
 
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hardballer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
925
Location
West Coast of Wisconsin
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer10regs16-19.pdf

It is illegal to:
• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during
open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.
Note: An established target range means an existing location that is set up for
target shooting with firearms as its major purpose.


This will change. The Wisconsin DNR (Dang Near Russian) will go broke trying to fight lawsuit after lawsuit if they try to enforce any of this on a law abiding citizen who's sole intent is to protect themselves. These laws will not withstand Constitutional muster. The DNR is due for a neutering anyway.

The current laws on the books have been pushed through mainly due to DNR lobbyists smearing the law abiding citizen and putting their law enforcement needs above the Constitution and our need for self-defense.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
While reading the DNR hunting regs,they say you cannot posess any firearm unless unloaded and in a case on 11/19/10 bewteen 12:00am and 11:59 pm

It also states you cannot posess a rifle larger than a .22cal. in shotgun designated areas during the deer gun season! what about those who carry AR's for self defence and don't Hunt.

These regs don't specify where you can't carry? just says you cannot posess!

I suspect those restrictions will come under scrutiny post McDonald. That is if they are ever contested. They are relativley minor infractions where the cost to contest them is considerably more than the fine. I think that is by intention on the part of the DNR for most of it's penalties. The DNR has unique Rule Making authority in Wisconsin. That means any restriction it generates is considered law until proved otherwise in a court of law. By keeping fines below the cost of litigation the DNR avoids many legal contests. I don't believe complaining about the constitutionality will have any effect. Getting an AG opinion may be effective, but that avenue is beyond our reach. However if we could find a couple of sympathetic DAs to ask for a ruling we could make some progress.

I see an even bigger problem on the horizon. That is the inevitable clash between constitutional amendments Article I section 25 and Article I section 26. Section 25 reads "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose". Section 26 reads "The people have the right to fish, hunt, trap and take game subject only to reasonable regulations as prescribed by law".
Does the rule making authority as it now exists meet the "reasonable regulations as prescribed by law" test? Do the DNR hunting firearm regulations trump the fundamental right to keep and bear arms under Art sec 25 for hunting because they are considered reasonable under Art I sec 26? Only the state supreme court can fix this conundrum and I doubt that a test case will ever reach that level.

I think there may be one glimmer of hope. Now that McDonald v Chicago has confirmed that the second amendment is incorporated to the states, all levels of law enforcement in Wisconsin are prohibited by federal law from influencing state legislation. Because the DNR is a law enforcement agency perhaps now it's strangle hold on the state legislature can be removed.

These are just some of my opinions. They and three bucks will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Ref. Law Enforcement Misconduct Statute 42 U.S.C. ss14141
 
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littlewolf

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
349
Location
A, A
Well let's see them try to enforce hunting regulations on somebody who isn't hunting.

Do you know anyone who carries an AR for defense and who isn't living within an area on the USA-Mexico border? Seems a little burdensome without a specific sort of threat.

Yes,I have a cousin who carries his Kimber or H&K AND one of his AR,s when he's up at the cabin just south of Dunbar.
I live in the boonies in Waupaca Co. I can't go check my stands to make sure their still there for. opening day and carry, by their rule.
Here's a hypothetical situation; The dnr also has ammo restrictions,I'm in a shotgun county,Icannot posess buckshot during the deer gun season.Hunting hours are over for the day and I have a 1mile walk back to the truck,slugs aint worth a damn in the dark so I load up with 00 for protection and maybe a slug in there to ,I get stopped by Wally Warden and get busted for hunting after dark and illegal ammo. how do you fight that?
 

junkie

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
65
Location
Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA
There are a lot of things that the DNR says that just try to make people think they are above the law. People will say that they can just come into your house to search your freezer without a warrant. I can tell you that I will never let them into my house without a warrant and I will not stop carrying on the day before deer season. We have way too many wolves up where we go and I never go into the woods unarmed anymore.
 

littlewolf

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
349
Location
A, A
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer10regs16-19.pdf

It is illegal to:
• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during
open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.
Note: An established target range means an existing location that is set up for
target shooting with firearms as its major purpose.

As for the established target range, I have a rangeset up in my back yard. I'm a dealer and install scopes,if someone comes in on the 19th to get one put on and sighted in legally I can't because I do this out of my residance.
 

littlewolf

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
349
Location
A, A
There are a lot of things that the DNR says that just try to make people think they are above the law. People will say that they can just come into your house to search your freezer without a warrant. I can tell you that I will never let them into my house without a warrant and I will not stop carrying on the day before deer season. We have way too many wolves up where we go and I never go into the woods unarmed anymore.

hear ya, the frezzer thin happend to a freind,beat on the door put my freinds wife on the floor at gunpoint and cleaned out the freezer.all because a dnr snich told a BS strory he got his meat back but it cost him several days of work going to court
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Notice there's no exception for law enforcement or military or any of those normally protected classes?

I think we need to have a little get-together that day, pockets of open carriers all across the state.
It's a Friday; anyone up for a TGIF dinner?
Let the DNR try to charge us... they'll cost the state a whole lotta money paying out reparations!
 
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logan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
433
Location
Greeley, CO
Notice there's no exception for law enforcement or military or any of those normally protected classes?

I think we need to have a little get-together that day, pockets of open carriers all across the state.
It's a Friday; anyone up for a TGIF dinner?
Let the DNR try to charge us... they'll cost the state a whole lotta money paying out reparations!

I could use some extra money...
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
29.312
29.312 Rules regulating the sighting of a firearm.

29.312(1)
(1) In this section, "immediate family" means persons who are related as spouses, as siblings, or as parent and child.


29.312(2)
(2) The department may not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits a person from sighting a firearm on land owned or leased by that person or a member of that person's immediate family during the 24-hour period prior to the opening date for hunting deer with firearms in any area where there is an open season for hunting deer with firearms.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
The DNR is a law enforcement agency of the State. As a result it must uphold constitutional rights. It can not enter a private residence without due process. Under federal constitutional rights and Article I section 11 of the Wisconsin constitution a warrant is required or articulate probable cause, mere suspicion is not probable cause. The only circumstance under which the DNR can lawfully enter private property without due process or owner permission is as follows.

29.924(5)
(5) Access to private land . The department may, after making reasonable efforts to notify the owner or occupant, enter private lands to retrieve or diagnose dead or diseased wild animals and take actions reasonably necessary to prevent the spread of contagious disease in the wild animals.

my opinion.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
This is the text of an email I sent to Randy Stark, Chief Warden of the DNR and Michael Lutz, DNR lawyer supervisor. It concerns the prohibiton of firearm possession within the 24 hours preceeding the November regular gun deer hunting season. I will post any reply I receive.

Mr. Stark:
I'm sure you are aware that as a result of the SCOTUS decisions in Heller v Washington DC and McDonald v City of Chicago that the DNR rule that people may not possess firearms during the 24 hours preceeding the opening of the gun deer season ( Nov. 19,2010) is, in my opinion, no longer enforceable as written.
The Heller decision affimed that the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution is an individual right granted to all law abiding citizens of the United States. The McDonald decision furthur added that the second amendment is incorporated to the states and just as the federal government cannot deny firearm possession to qualified private citizens nor can the states or local governments.

Furthermore the rule eviscerates Article I section 25 of the Wisconsin constitution which gives citizens the right to possess and carry arms for personal protection (security, defense) or for that matter any lawful purpose. The Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled in State v Hamdan that Article I section 25 may not be eviscerated by the State. The State must provide a manner by which the right may be exercised.

It is my opinion that DNR rules can not trump federal and state constitutional law.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
As for the established target range, I have a rangeset up in my back yard. I'm a dealer and install scopes,if someone comes in on the 19th to get one put on and sighted in legally I can't because I do this out of my residance.

Yes, you may. The DNR administrative enforcement policy is such that you may shoot in your own backyard. You may also open carry in a city. I have discussed OC on the 19th with "Official" DNR representatives.
It is illegal to:
• possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 19, 2010 unless
the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions: target
shooting at established target ranges, target shooting on private lands by landowners
and immediate family members who live with them,
waterfowl hunting during
open season, hunting game birds on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting
turkeys and small game in CWD Management Zone units.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
IK:
Since when does our constitutional rights end at the city limits?

Even the SCOTUS has proclaimed that the RTKABA is not unlimited. I do not feel that the exact Constitutional limits have been completely defined yet. Go ahead and open carry and then be prepared to fight it in court. Since the DNR Administrative Code has not been challenged on a Constitutional basis, you would be creating case law should you be found guilty and you appeal to the State Supreme Court. There has been no push to modify the current Code. Until then, the wardens may continue to enforce it and we are free to challenge it.
 
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