Question on where to store magazines in vehicle...

Sylvia Plath said:

This thread is about everyday carry, not going hunting or fishing; those types of outdoor activities.

Second, you are throwing a huge gray area out there, then stating that not all LEO's know this RCW or that they will interpret it correctly. Try being more specific when you are talking about a gray area that this RCW can create for the carrier.

-What constitutes coming and going? You drive to the activity armed (legal). You leave the activity, drive to McDonalds, then drive home, (?). How would the officer know that you left an outdoor activity, he just seen you at Mcdonalds, he pulls you over as you pull out of McDonalds because you make a left out of a right only, he realizes you are armed and asks for your Permit to carry because you are driving with a loaded handgun in your vehicle.

-can you articulate, prove how you were coming or going?

-If the officer does not know this RCW, are you prepared to bring it to his attention?

-The officer could cite you and make you explain yourself to a judge.

To save yourself the pain in the butt gray area this RCW inherently creates, load your sidearm when you get to your destination, and unload when you leave. Yes, you are protected but the protection is not fully clear. There are so many variable that can cause you legal issues.

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I thought this forum was about the legality of open carry, whether that be everyday or for specific reasons. The RCW (law) quoted is an exception to the CPL restrictions, thus allowing open carry while loaded in a vehicle when pursuing outdoor activities in general.

As far as it being a gray area. Its about as much of a gray area as open carry is. There are way too many stories on this board about LEOs not knowing the laws they are supposed to enforce regarding open carry. This would just be one more. Is it possible for any of the "what if?" situations you brought up to happen? Absolutely, but not more so than open carry will get you in general. The RCW shouldn't be used to maliciously circumvent needing a CPL, but one should not be scared on exercising ones rights just because LEOs don't know the law.

Or maybe I have misread every post on this board...

NavyLT said:

I think the point that TheJeepster makes is very valid. Going hiking, going fishing, going hunting are normal activities that normal people engage in. If those normal people are going to/from those normal activities, they have an exception in the law that allows them to carry a loaded handgun in their vehicle and/or concealed on their person, as they choose, without a CPL. I think it is totally within the purpose of this forum to discuss that.

And that exception to the law is more than just a gray area or a loophole. It is a specific exception, written intentionally by the legislators, with a specific intention behind it.

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I said that this thread topic, not the forum, is about general carry, meaning a form of carry that is not exempted under RCW. The person who started this thread was asking a question about general carry when driving in your car. Yes, there is an exception, but that exception is not general carry, there are somewhat specific guidelines that make it legal to carry while in your vehicle without a permit to carry, and the RCW outlines what that is.

It is a gray area. There is a specific intent in the RCW, but specific intentions do not always translate to like application of the RCW. Intent and application are two different things.

I am just posting. The person who started this thread does not have to take what I am saying and consider it to hold any value. You want to act as if the law is some clear cut thing when it isn't. It is misleading to act as if there is an absolute in any law, there are no absolutes, only "probabilities."

Please correct my if I'm wrong but, according to leo's I've spoken with open carry is fine however once you enter a vehicle the firearm is no longer viewable and therfore considered concealed. Best to keep it off you and unloaded till you get a permit at least when inside a car or truck. Err on the side of safety, yours and the LEO's who has been on shift for 12 hours is tired and suddenly sees your gun on your hip as you reach for your wallet. scary huh? No one needs the stress. Play it by the book till they learn that the Constitution of The United States of America is OUR law.
As for your mags......keep them in your belt pouches or any where you like....except in the gun

You can carry a handgun in an IWB holster, as long as it's "reasonably obvious" you have a firearm on you.

So if the butt of your Colt is sticking out plain as day against your shirt, then it's not concealed.

I've open carried with a Crossbreed Supertuck before, I just tucked my shirt behind it and it was good to go.

Essentially: If you have to lift your shirt or pull it out of a pocket to touch it, it's concealed. If "random guy" can't glance at you for ten seconds and see some part of that handgun you're open carrying, you're doing it wrong.

And yes, my favorite: You can literally duct tape your handgun and/or magazines to your forehead if you like. As long as the magazine isn't in the pistol and there isn't a round in the chamber, you're good to go.

Get a CPL, however, and that problem goes away.

I'd LOVE to see THAT traffic stop.

"Sir, why is there a pistol taped to your forehead?"

"Sir, why don't YOU have a pistol taped to YOUR forehead?"

Hahahahaha.

TheJeepster said:

The RCW shouldn't be used to maliciously circumvent needing a CPL, but one should not be scared on exercising ones rights just because LEOs don't know the law.

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I completely agree.

General carry without a permit while driving is not legal. If you are engaging in activities that are excepted under the RCW that outlines outdoor activities, you are legal. This poster did not ask about special exemption carry while driving, they asked about general carry while driving. The reason I make distinctions between all of these things is that people need to understand that what is and is not lawful can be complex. Some people lack the capacity, I am not implying this poster does, to understand that reality and take general responses as being some blanket OK to carry.

I still want an answer to what I posted above:

You are leaving your outdoor activity to head home, you stop at McDonald's to grab a bite to eat. You leave McDonald's, get into your vehicle with a loaded handgun and continue home. Does your outdoor activity exemption no longer apply because you are engaging in activities that are not protected under the RCW exemption? I would say you are no longer legal.

If someone has a case involving carrying without permit while driving to and from an outdoor activity, post it. I have not been able to find anything.

I could be wrong; I have been wrong, on occasion

Sylvia Plath said:

I still want an answer to what I posted above:

You are leaving your outdoor activity to head home, you stop at McDonald's to grab a bite to eat. You leave McDonald's, get into your vehicle with a loaded handgun and continue home. Does your outdoor activity exemption no longer apply because you are engaging in activities that are not protected under the RCW exemption? I would say you are no longer legal.

If someone has a case involving carrying without permit while driving to and from an outdoor activity, post it. I have not been able to find anything.

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I do quite a bit of outdoor recreation. When I found out about this law I also did some research and couldn't find the details about what is or is not permissible when traveling to or from. So I asked the outdoor cops (WA Dept of Fish & Widllife Enforcement) and here is what I was told:

When persuing outdoor recreational activities you can carry just like you have a CPL. All laws governing CPL are still in force. (i.e. no restricted areas like bars). This exception to the CPL license includes ALL travel TO and FROM the legal outdoor activity. This means stopping for food, bait, soda, beer, bathroom are ALL covered. (Remember that the ONLY thing that is differing from regular OC that pertains to this discussion is the fact that you can OC your weapon in your vehicle LOADED and be legal). I know the next question is how can they know if you were traveling to or from the activity. (Here it comes) LEO judgement based on your story. Can you end up with a ticket, arrested and fined. Sure, but you have that just OCing also. Ask a couple people from Vancouver.

The F&W Enforcement Officer then went on to say that many LEAs do not usually come across this situation and are likely to be unaware of the law or just not care, since no training or documentation has been provided. (I find this very similar to the OC problems that always occur because of uninformed, power-driven or just lazy LEOs.

The best thing to do is get a CPL. I have one and its gives me more latitude to carry when or how I like.

As for why this even came up. One of your posts stated that the ONLY time you can carry a pistol loaded in a vehicle was when you have a CPL. I just wanted to point out the exception to the CPL regarding carrying loaded. It's funny though since the exception basically gives you a limited CPL you can still only technically carry loaded in a vehicle with a CPL. (OWW my head hurts!)

killchain said:

And yes, my favorite: You can literally duct tape your handgun and/or magazines to your forehead if you like. As long as the magazine isn't in the pistol and there isn't a round in the chamber, you're good to go.


I'd LOVE to see THAT traffic stop.

"Sir, why is there a pistol taped to your forehead?"

"Sir, why don't YOU have a pistol taped to YOUR forehead?"

Hahahahaha.

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TANGENT: Ok I thought about this one for a minute, and I've got to wonder... if someone actually DID go around with a pistol duck taped to their head, might that be grounds for a .270 violation? Cuz on the one hand, it makes for excellent trigger discipline, but on the other, you'd be muzzle sweeping like an overworked janitor.:question:

Metalhead47 said:

TANGENT: Ok I thought about this one for a minute, and I've got to wonder... if someone actually DID go around with a pistol duck taped to their head, might that be grounds for a .270 violation? Cuz on the one hand, it makes for excellent trigger discipline, but on the other, you'd be muzzle sweeping like an overworked janitor.:question:

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No more than carrying in a horizontal shoulder holster. I'd think you would be fine.:lol:

I tend to stow it(unloaded) in an out-of-the-way compartment of my vehicle while driving. I can still get to it if need be, but if I'm ever in a routine stop *knock on wood*, my empty holster is covered by my shirt, and the LEO is none the wiser.

When I get out, I'll grab my pistol, holster it, get out of my car, then insert the mag. If it's a short stop, I don't bother chambering a round, because I've become quite good with racking the slide with my belt on a draw(snap caps are great tools). Once I get my CPL in the mail(almost a month now since I went down there), I wont have to worry about clearing every time I get into my car, and can still go cocked and locked with no major issues.

I do appreciate all the responses. They say knowledge is power, and that ignorance to the law is not an excuse to break the law(knowingly or unknowingly).

You know..... when I made the duct tape comment, I was trying to end a dispute. For that one, I think, Lammo threatened to commit me to WSH/ESH (and gave me a geography lesson at the same time, I now know what WSH is!). It still makes me chuckle a little to see it come back every now and again.

My advice is to store them on the passenger seat.

For instance, I store an issue of Sheriff Magazine on my passenger seat all the time, especially when I leave the car in a questionable area:

http://www.sheriffs.org/publications/SheriffMagazine.asp

Helps on two levels, deters casual criminals from targeting my car, and deters police from issuing me a ticket.

arentol said:

My advice is to store them on the passenger seat.

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What happens when you have to stop quickly? Do they go flying about?

(Hmmm....thinking I should invent an mag holder for a vehicle...)

Question on where to store magazines in vehicle...


The gun magazines like SWAT and Guns & Ammo go on the seat where you can reach them to read in traffic jams.

The magazines like Playboy or Penthouse go under the seat.

The magazines for your pistol can be anywere, just not in your pistol.