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Thread: Quick Question on Discharging Weapons

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    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
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    Quick Question on Discharging Weapons

    I have a few friends from the United Kingdom coming into town next week. Are any of you guys aware of any laws that prohibit visitors from the UK from going target shooting on private property? I am not aware of any, but I thought I would check seeing that most of you are familiar with the law and some are lawyers.
    Thanks in advance.

    James

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I think the question would be more of possession not discharge. That being said, if they are lawfully in the US I know of nothing that would prohibit them from shooting or possessing.
    Last edited by VAopencarry; 08-02-2010 at 10:55 PM.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Incorrect.

    They can shoot with you, but they cannot be in possession unless they have a resident visa or a hunting permit.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    They can shoot with you, but they cannot be in possession unless they have a resident visa or a hunting permit.
    Alright now, someone's gonna have to come up with something better than this... or a seriously convoluted explanation on how someone can shoot a gun without possessing it...

    ETA: Seems we've had plenty of discussions about felons who can't possess, and should even avoid being in the same home with unsecured firearms... I don't really think you can have two different definitions of possess, one for felons and one for overseas visitors...

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 08-03-2010 at 01:21 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Alright now, someone's gonna have to come up with something better than this... or a seriously convoluted explanation on how someone can shoot a gun without possessing it...

    ETA: Seems we've had plenty of discussions about felons who can't possess, and should even avoid being in the same home with unsecured firearms... I don't really think you can have two different definitions of possess, one for felons and one for overseas visitors...

    TFred
    I took a movie crew from California shooting. If it's OK for LA people it certainly should be alright for a couple of Londoners to see what they won't be going back to.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    James,

    Discharge of firearms is often addressed by local code.

    For example, in Lynchburg,
    No person shall ... discharge anywhere within the city limits any firearm ... except upon a properly located and constructed gunnery or archery range, approved by the chief of police, as hereinafter provided.
    See http://www.lynchburgva.gov/Index.aspx?page=2599

    If gunfire is not common in your area, and you start shooting, the police will likely show up.

    Know your local laws.

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    DrMark, Jero actually has a place to shoot that is acceptable for shooting. His main interest is in knowing whether any laws apply that would prevent non-resident, visiting aliens from going shooting with him for the sake of an introduction to firearms.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    His main interest is in knowing whether any laws apply that would prevent non-resident, visiting aliens from going shooting with him for the sake of an introduction to firearms.
    I do not believe there is any law prohibiting their possession, handling or firing of weapons.

    They are merely restricted from PURCHASING, as they are not U.S. citizens.

    IANAL.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    I do not believe there is any law prohibiting their possession, handling or firing of weapons.

    They are merely restricted from PURCHASING, as they are not U.S. citizens.

    IANAL.
    Not a lawyer and not correct.

    non-citizens must have a green card or hunting permit, else no gun. I wasn't guessing, it was discussed just last week.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    They can shoot with you, but they cannot be in possession unless they have a resident visa or a hunting permit.
    Provide a cite please.

    Also, how does one shoot a gun without possessing it?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by VAopencarry View Post
    Provide a cite please.

    Also, how does one shoot a gun without possessing it?
    have someone else tie a string to the trigger, and then have the other person pull the string from a distance?

  12. #12
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Possession is a legal term..

    Quote Originally Posted by VAopencarry View Post
    Provide a cite please.

    Also, how does one shoot a gun without possessing it?
    ... and it means you have transferred the firearm to the person.

    Letting your buddy shoot, or him renting from a range is not the same.

    As for the citation.
    Title 18, USC Chapter 44, Section 922, part (y)(2)
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-03-2010 at 02:21 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    non-citizens must have a green card or hunting permit, else no gun. I wasn't guessing, it was discussed just last week.
    Discussed last week where?

    A discussion on a forum does not create legal status. A cite would be nice.
    the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    Of course, if you are on private property where shooting is lawful and your guests are shooting with you, then there shouldn't even be an issue.

    I see in the cite above (which posted while I was typing) that a non-immigrant visa granted may shoot if meeting certain conditions. Assuming, of course, that you shooting draws the attention of a federal agent or, at the very least, a local constable who wants to see one of his citizens prosecuted for an ignorant law.

    I wonder if the enforcement of those laws were in place when France helped us gain our independence from England. I think probably not.

    The USC and CFR are abominations to liberty.
    Last edited by wylde007; 08-03-2010 at 02:29 PM.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    You know what else would be nice?

    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Discussed last week where?

    A discussion on a forum does not create legal status. A cite would be nice.
    If we didn't have to keep re-pasting **** because people don't use the search function.

    It was cited a week or two ago. I was able to locate the thread in 15 seconds on the search function. I feel like We're being used to do someone else's homework, you know?
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-03-2010 at 02:28 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    I feel like We're being used to do someone else's homework, you know?
    Reread the above... I was caught unawares.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    You know what??

    Anytime I see a question asked more than once, I'm going to re-post it in the legal folder.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I guess the simple answer to keep it completely above board, is to have them get a county only (Cheaper) small game license.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I just realized a potential problem with that

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I guess the simple answer to keep it completely above board, is to have them get a county only (Cheaper) small game license.
    He will only be able to carry in accordance with the 43466422357 laws each county has relating to hunting. He'll only be able to carry certain guns certain times of the year and day, he will have to unload every time he crosses a road or is in a vehicle. etc etc.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Question

    It is on loan for a lawful sporting purpose.
    Exactly as I posed above. And so I was correct, sort of.

    Target shooting qualifies as a "lawful sporting purpose" does it not?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Exactly as I posed above. And so I was correct, sort of.

    Target shooting qualifies as a "lawful sporting purpose" does it not?
    Ding! Ding! Ding!

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Is that a Futurama "motivational" poster?

    Brilliant.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone for your responses and I apologize for any conflict my question may have raised.

    The only reason I posted was because I could not find a sufficient answer in the search function to satisfy my question.

    I also called around to a few local ranges who have been in business for awhile. They said that it is not an issue if you are on private property.

    From the way I interpret the law, possession would be the carry (in public) or ownership of the firearm.

    All of your responses have helped tremendously. Thanks!
    Last edited by Jero1987; 08-03-2010 at 05:20 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Exactly as I posed above. And so I was correct, sort of.

    Target shooting qualifies as a "lawful sporting purpose" does it not?
    Yes, however the firearm can only be on loan.

    I guess I should clarify. When I said you cannot possess I meant as in ownership. Sorry for the confusion.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Hey Joe the cite you posted, I think they would covered since they will be on private property and the third bullet;
    •It is on loan for a lawful sporting purpose.

    Sorry posted this without reading the remainder of posts. Seems we all came to the same conclusion.
    Last edited by Infidel; 08-03-2010 at 10:14 PM.

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