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Thread: Revision of Posts

  1. #1
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    Revision of Posts

    I find it amazing that the moderators will only come in and revise or delete posts when one of the elitists complain that someone who is not considered at the same level has offended them. What happened to freedom of speech? If the moderators think that we non-elitists are going to sit back and take the rude remarks and comments that are posted toward us then this forum has truly become a bogus forum.

    My comments to others here have only become negative when it was deserving and in response to insults or negative remarks directed toward me or other members who did not deserve to be treated in such a way.

    Maybe the Mods can create an elite forum where those elitists can go and post their threads.

    Regardless if you like my posts or not, the only one that should be changing my words is me. I would do so if asked by the mods and it being done without discussion is nothing more than someone dictating what we are and are not allowed to say. I thought this was America.

  2. #2
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Whether you like it or not, the owners own the forum and can sensor/change/delete anything they want. Kinda like if you come to my house, if you say something I don't like, I can ask you to leave.

    I guess I don't understand this 'elite' statement though? Who do you consider elite and asking for your posts to be edited?

    Only edits I have seen seem to be of personal attacks or explicit breaking of the rules. They weren't vigorously enforced in the past and I think that has scared away some new people because they sometimes get slammed for saying somehing some of us think isn't correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Whether you like it or not, the owners own the forum and can sensor/change/delete anything they want. Kinda like if you come to my house, if you say something I don't like, I can ask you to leave.

    I guess I don't understand this 'elite' statement though? Who do you consider elite and asking for your posts to be edited?

    Only edits I have seen seem to be of personal attacks or explicit breaking of the rules. They weren't vigorously enforced in the past and I think that has scared away some new people because they sometimes get slammed for saying somehing some of us think isn't correct.
    Those I consider elite are the ones who degrade another's brand of firearm because their firearm cost more than the person who they are chastising. I could go back and post names but I don't think that is necessary. It is the ones who call names and constantly poke fun of every statement or thread that is posted by other members.

    The ones who criticize others for posting a thread off topic and then post off topic threads themselves. The one who want you to believe they will stand up and fight along side you for this cause, when in fact they are only interested in their own hidden agendas.

    The difference between your house and this forum is that this forum is open to the public and your home is not. This is America, we Americans have the right to speak out when it is for a just cause and even when it is not.
    Typing something in this forum is not the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater.

    I understand that the Mods are trying to make the forum presentable for the new members and general public that may browse the forum. The problem I have is that they only do it when certain people complain instead of being consistent.

    So if you have befriended a certain few here, you are allowed to say anything you want or post anything you want on any topic whether it is off topic or not. If you are not a member of that click then it is a no no.

    By the way it will be interesting to go back through the posts and the threads and see just who's threads and posts have been edited.

    I am fine with following the rules, let's just see how they apply to everyone else. And I will be watching.
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 08-03-2010 at 03:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Those I consider elite are the ones who degrade another's brand of firearm because their firearm cost more than the person who they are chastising. I could go back and post names but I don't think that is necessary. It is the ones who call names and constantly poke fun of every statement or thread that is posted by other members.

    The ones who criticize others for posting a thread off topic and then post off topic threads themselves. The one who want you to believe they will stand up and fight along side you for this cause, when in fact they are only interested in their own hidden agendas.

    The difference between your house and this forum is that this forum is open to the public and your home is not. This is America, we Americans have the right to speak out when it is for a just cause and even when it is not.
    Typing something in this forum is not the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater.

    I understand that the Mods are trying to make the forum presentable for the new members and general public that may browse the forum. The problem I have is that they only do it when certain people complain instead of being consistent.

    So if you have befriended a certain few here, you are allowed to say anything you want or post anything you want on any topic whether it is off topic or not. If you are not a member of that click then it is a no no.

    I am fine with following the rules, let's just see how they apply to everyone else. And I will be watching.
    The simple method is to "report posts that break rules." Ranting about some perceived unfairness serves no purpose other than to show others that you are upset about some perceived unfairness.......

    As for the 1st, this IS their property, and the only "freedom of speech" present is that of the owners. If you desire a similar freedom to express your ideas, create your own property on the internet, and allow others to post on it.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Those I consider elite are the ones who degrade another's brand of firearm because their firearm cost more than the person who they are chastising. I could go back and post names but I don't think that is necessary. It is the ones who call names and constantly poke fun of every statement or thread that is posted by other members.

    The ones who criticize others for posting a thread off topic and then post off topic threads themselves. The one who want you to believe they will stand up and fight along side you for this cause, when in fact they are only interested in their own hidden agendas.

    The difference between your house and this forum is that this forum is open to the public and your home is not. This is America, we Americans have the right to speak out when it is for a just cause and even when it is not.
    Typing something in this forum is not the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater.

    I understand that the Mods are trying to make the forum presentable for the new members and general public that may browse the forum. The problem I have is that they only do it when certain people complain instead of being consistent.

    So if you have befriended a certain few here, you are allowed to say anything you want or post anything you want on any topic whether it is off topic or not. If you are not a member of that click then it is a no no.

    I am fine with following the rules, let's just see how they apply to everyone else. And I will be watching.
    I guess I have no clue who you mean by elites.

    I find it unbelievable that we are complaining about infringing our rights and then in the same breath chastising the mods because they exercise their rights. They have property rights. They can regulate anything they want, they can ban all people named Paul if they want.

    We don't pay for this forum, at least I haven't, and the mods can do whatever I want. Ultimately the only vote I have is to stop coming.

    Even if we paid for access, there are terms of service and rules that must be followed, otherwise you can be asked to leave. Kinda like open carrying in a business. Owner comes up and says 'please remove your weapon when in my store', he has that right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Whether you like it or not, the owners own the forum and can sensor/change/delete anything they want. Kinda like if you come to my house, if you say something I don't like, I can ask you to leave.
    Correct, but a better analogy might be to compare this to their business (npo) property, which is open to the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by pf
    I guess I don't understand this 'elite' statement though? Who do you consider elite and asking for your posts to be edited?
    Me neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by pf
    Only edits I have seen seem to be of personal attacks or explicit breaking of the rules. They weren't vigorously enforced in the past and I think that has scared away some new people because they sometimes get slammed for saying somehing some of us think isn't correct.
    Same here. The only 'mod' edits I have seen appear to be for rule infractions, not because of some 'elite/peon' bias.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    By the way, this thread is a rule infraction. It should either be locked, deleted, or moved to the lounge.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    By the way, this thread is a rule infraction. It should either be locked, deleted, or moved to the lounge.

    That is true, John created a special forum for 'sound off' threads.

    Of course, I would never read them.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    By the way, this thread is a rule infraction. It should either be locked, deleted, or moved to the lounge.
    A long with the many other Threads that are off topic.



    By the way I did not see any "Lounge" for such threads.
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 08-03-2010 at 03:55 PM.

  10. #10
    McX
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    off topic threads? I am probably guilty as charged. being diciplined by the mods for a bad post, again guilty as charged. no one is perfect, especially not me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    A long with the many other Threads that are off topic.



    By the way I did not see any "Lounge" for such threads.
    Look up....

    There are links to "The Social Lounge," and to "Forum Rules" in the yellow strips visible on each page under the adverts.

    If you do come across off-topic threads, report them, and if they ARE off-topic, they will likely be locked and/or deleted.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    My comments to others here have only become negative when it was deserving and in response to insults or negative remarks directed toward me or other members who did not deserve to be treated in such a way.
    So, you let others get you upset enough to react, and your post got reported and modified.
    I suppose that is a valid course of action. But, if the insults bothered you that much, you could have reported those posts, avoided responding in kind, thus retaining focus on the original infraction......

    Or, continue as you are.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    I find it amazing that the moderators will only come in and revise or delete posts when one of the elitists complain that someone who is not considered at the same level has offended them. What happened to freedom of speech? If the moderators think that we non-elitists are going to sit back and take the rude remarks and comments that are posted toward us then this forum has truly become a bogus forum.

    My comments to others here have only become negative when it was deserving and in response to insults or negative remarks directed toward me or other members who did not deserve to be treated in such a way.

    Maybe the Mods can create an elite forum where those elitists can go and post their threads.

    Regardless if you like my posts or not, the only one that should be changing my words is me. I would do so if asked by the mods and it being done without discussion is nothing more than someone dictating what we are and are not allowed to say. I thought this was America.
    I haven't edited anyone's posts to change what they have said except to delete comments that violate the rules. Is that what you mean? If so .. then guilty. But if you mean that you think the meaning of a post has been changed by putting in words that were not there, then we do NOT do that and if you have examples, please share them.


    John

  14. #14
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    The problem I have is that they only do it when certain people complain instead of being consistent.
    You almost pegged it there. It isn't WHO reported a post but simply that the post WAS reported.

    We can't read all of the posts that are made and still earn a living.

    So ... those who report posts get our attention and since the new report feature takes us right to the offending thread, even when we are busy at work (like now), we can read it, make a determination and act on it.

    So ... the lesson here is ... it is not the person who complains but the fact that they do. We try very hard to apply the rules even handedly and if you are attacked or see bad behavior, hit the report button on the post (triangle with an ! in it) and add a quick note of what is wrong with it and I will respond ASAP regardless of WHO is reporting and WHO is being reported.

    Thanks.


    John

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    By the way, this thread is a rule infraction. It should either be locked, deleted, or moved to the lounge.
    Actually, it is my policy to allow posts where members have a problem with moderation. Mike and I do not have a secret agenda ... we just want to keep the forum running smoothly for everyone so if one of us has a concern then it is proper to discuss it in public.


    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    So, you let others get you upset enough to react, and your post got reported and modified.
    I suppose that is a valid course of action. But, if the insults bothered you that much, you could have reported those posts, avoided responding in kind, thus retaining focus on the original infraction......

    Or, continue as you are.
    Well, let's use our good friend Jesus Gonzalez as an example. He used his firearm in what he thought was the defense of his life. Many of us here support him while others admonish him for using his firearm and taking a life. I have to ask, what is the purpose of carrying a firearm if you shouldn't use it to defend your life or the life of another?
    Is it because the carrier likes the attention he gets from those around him? If so, then that person is carrying for the wrong reasons.
    When I see a person whom I consider a friend or comrade being attacked in such a way I speak up. Maybe it is my Irish temper that gets the best of me. But the question still remains, if you do not intend on using a firearm to defend your life or the life of another than what is the point of carrying one in the first place?

    I for one believe that Jesus, in his mind, believed he was defending his life. It is those types of attacks on someones integrity that irk me to no end. Unless you know all of the facts don't judge him. It is bad enough that he will be tried based on bad information in the criminal compliant.

    No wonder it has taken so long for Wisconsin to get anything accomplished. The state is filled with people with huge egos that believe that they are better than the rest and have all of the answers. Instead of standing up together and uniting and supporting each other to bring about our common goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Actually, it is my policy to allow posts where members have a problem with moderation. Mike and I do not have a secret agenda ... we just want to keep the forum running smoothly for everyone so if one of us has a concern then it is proper to discuss it in public.


    John
    That sounds fair. My comment about "off-topic" is from a strict 'read' of the rules for topic. Maybe an area could be created in the general area (or maybe a sub-forum under "Forum Rules") could make those topics more visible to you and Mike.
    Last edited by wrightme; 08-03-2010 at 05:46 PM.
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    Article I section 3 of the Wisconsin constitution.

    Free speech; libel. SECTION 3. Every person may freely
    speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being
    responsible for the abuse of that right, and no laws shall be
    passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press.
    In all criminal prosecutions or indictments for libel, the truth
    may be given in evidence, and if it shall appear to the jury that
    the matter charged as libelous be true, and was published with
    good motives and for justifiable ends, the party shall be
    acquitted; and the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts.

    What ownership the progenators of a forum retain when it goes public is still to be determined. For example what ownership do the developers of facebook have regarding the content of information posted? presuming the moderators of OCDO do in fact still own this forum there is something of concern. Art I section 3 of the Wisconsin constitution holds us legally responsible for what we say and write. I would hope that if the moderators find something I say in my posts that is "out of bounds" or offensive that they will either delete the post in it's entirety or acknowledge within the post that they have altered it's content.

  19. #19
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    They already said they dont edit posts, just delete the offending content.

    Quit acting like juvenile's and your posts won't get reported or edited.

    As someone who has been a volunteer moderator, and currently works full time as a paid forum moderator, I can assure you, the owners of this forum can do anything they want with your posts. Not that it matters, but the software forum keeps track of every revision, edit, deletion, etc.
    Last edited by fozzy71; 08-03-2010 at 07:15 PM.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Regardless if you like my posts or not, the only one that should be changing my words is me. I would do so if asked by the mods and it being done without discussion is nothing more than someone dictating what we are and are not allowed to say. I thought this was America.
    COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Perosnal attack

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Let us get back on focus and and turn our energy back to where it needs to be, Against those who wish to infringe on our right to carry open or concealed.

    Lets keep our sibling bickering on a face to face basis.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by springfield 1911 View Post
    Let us get back on focus and and turn our energy back to where it needs to be, Against those who wish to infringe on our right to carry open or concealed.

    Lets keep our sibling bickering on a face to face basis.

    +100000000000000!

    This a 2A site, not a 1A site. Also, we have enough enemies, we don't need to make any more amongst ourselves.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    What happened to freedom of speech?... I thought this was America.
    Wow. New to the Internet?
    "The right of self-defense never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."
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  24. #24
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    Clarification in edit

    So admin I can say I am as confused as Gleason on this one that I posted in the Jesus Fund thread. The poster asked for clarification, which I gave him in a nice way, which you deleted leaving only my slightly sardonic remark. Either delete the whole thing or leave it stand the way it was. By deleting only part of it, I am left out of context, which I really don't like. Oh and guess who I was responding to? Seems odd to me.

    'more info' I looked back and found his response to me completely gone, no trace that he had been edited, deleted or responded which he had by calling Doug and idjiot.

    Translation and comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Can somebody translate this foolishness for me please?

    --EDITED _ OFF TOPIC--

    I trust those were the parts you were having trouble with. Try Google next time. Some are born Confederate and some are Confederate by choice.

    Thank goodness I am a self educated Yankee so I can understand those southerners. Must be all that mountain music I listen to.

    Well I for one hope I am not left to stand by myself in front of a judge and jury if I make the decision to defend myself or my loved ones with my firearm that I carry openly. The anti's are like hungry lame lions waiting to pick off a stray or injured one. Guilty or not guilty, he will not get a fair trial without a lot of money, otherwise the verdict will mean nothing and no one will be able to have confidence in the findings.
    Last edited by bhancock; 08-04-2010 at 01:27 AM. Reason: more info

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Now he's going to get mad and leave "forever" again, only to return because one poor soul asks him to stay. This is one finely run forum and if you don't like the horrible way in which you are being treated don't let the door hit your tookus on the way out.

    Your posts in the "Jesus" thread got deleted and edited mainly because you insulted me for offering another perspective, not that I reported it to John or Mike as I could care less about what you are currently driveling.
    Gee I wonder if this personal attack will be edited? Or if the mods will just turn the other cheek.

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