Mike
Site Co-Founder
This is only true when open carrying in vehicles - please stop posting this incorrect information.
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Protest Wichita’s Ban on Loaded Open Carry
- Thread starter Damiansar-15
- Start date
This is only true when open carrying in vehicles - please stop posting this incorrect information.
I WILL stop Posting this Incorrect Information if you wish.
However, I challenge you to read KSA 12-16, 124(2) yourself at: http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/getStatute.do
However, I challenge you to read KSA 12-16, 124(2) yourself at: http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/getStatute.do
marine0300
Regular Member
Hey aadvark,
When your ready to go to KCK or Overland Park and open carry please send me a private message and I will go with you!
The best way to test your theory is test the waters.
I'm serious I will go with you but I won't be OC'ing.
Please keep fighting for the 2nd amendment!
Marine0300
When your ready to go to KCK or Overland Park and open carry please send me a private message and I will go with you!
The best way to test your theory is test the waters.
I'm serious I will go with you but I won't be OC'ing.
Please keep fighting for the 2nd amendment!
Marine0300
Marine0300:
I do not live in Kansas, as I currently live in Georgia.
I have no intentions on coming to Kansas soon, but I would like to Visit Kansas during some point in my Life.
In the meantime, I can only rely on what The Official Kansas Legislature Website says, as is current through 2010.
aadvark
I do not live in Kansas, as I currently live in Georgia.
I have no intentions on coming to Kansas soon, but I would like to Visit Kansas during some point in my Life.
In the meantime, I can only rely on what The Official Kansas Legislature Website says, as is current through 2010.
aadvark
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marine0300
Regular Member
Aardvark,
You’re welcome to visit Kansas anytime! I promise to take you open carrying just look me up.
Please keep posting on Kansas threads we need shaken up a little from time to time.
Do great things in Georgia,
Marine0300
You’re welcome to visit Kansas anytime! I promise to take you open carrying just look me up.
Please keep posting on Kansas threads we need shaken up a little from time to time.
Do great things in Georgia,
Marine0300
marine0300:
I have done some things in and around tha area that I live in in Georgia.
However, the things that I have done are not allowed to be discussed, per this Forums Rules.
Rest-assured, though, that everyhting I do is within the Parameters set forth by Georgia Law.
aadvark
I have done some things in and around tha area that I live in in Georgia.
However, the things that I have done are not allowed to be discussed, per this Forums Rules.
Rest-assured, though, that everyhting I do is within the Parameters set forth by Georgia Law.
aadvark
The truth
First off Damiansar-15 can validate that I do in fact have authority to answer some of the questions people are asking about, and that some statements by people are in fact incorrect statements.
Fact #1: You can have an unloaded gun in your car. In fact, you can have it lying on your left thigh and the magazine on your right thigh. Refer to city code 5.88.010 (f).
Fact #2: Cities can be MORE restrictive but not less than the state. In other words, any arguments regarding differences in city ordinances vs. state statue should only be a concern if they are LESS restrictive, or if the state statue says that a city will not be more restrictive in regards to a particular statue.
Fact #3: McDonald vs. Chicago addressed gun ownership on a persons property. The decisions made on that case didn't expand to open carry. This doesn't mean that it couldn't, it just means it didn't say either way. The main points that were Chicago gun restrictions and were:
* Prohibit the registration of handguns, thus effecting a broad handgun ban
* Require that guns be registered prior to their acquisition by Chicago residents, which is not always feasible
* Mandate that guns be re-registered annually, with another payment of the fee
* Render any gun permanently non-registrable if its registration lapses
Fact #4: Police don't need probable cause to stop someone and question them in regards to a possible crime. They only need reasonable suspicion. Terry vs. Ohio.
Hopefully this clears the air for people.
First off Damiansar-15 can validate that I do in fact have authority to answer some of the questions people are asking about, and that some statements by people are in fact incorrect statements.
Fact #1: You can have an unloaded gun in your car. In fact, you can have it lying on your left thigh and the magazine on your right thigh. Refer to city code 5.88.010 (f).
Fact #2: Cities can be MORE restrictive but not less than the state. In other words, any arguments regarding differences in city ordinances vs. state statue should only be a concern if they are LESS restrictive, or if the state statue says that a city will not be more restrictive in regards to a particular statue.
Fact #3: McDonald vs. Chicago addressed gun ownership on a persons property. The decisions made on that case didn't expand to open carry. This doesn't mean that it couldn't, it just means it didn't say either way. The main points that were Chicago gun restrictions and were:
* Prohibit the registration of handguns, thus effecting a broad handgun ban
* Require that guns be registered prior to their acquisition by Chicago residents, which is not always feasible
* Mandate that guns be re-registered annually, with another payment of the fee
* Render any gun permanently non-registrable if its registration lapses
Fact #4: Police don't need probable cause to stop someone and question them in regards to a possible crime. They only need reasonable suspicion. Terry vs. Ohio.
Hopefully this clears the air for people.
marine0300
Regular Member
Kansas Open Carry Law
Saefrog,
Thank you for the post.
I partially disagree with you on Fact #2
I will not post all of the open carry law 12-16,124 but just the section I believe your referring to:
KS State Open Carry Law:
(b) Nothing in this section shall:
(2) prohibit a city or county from regulating the manner of openly carrying a loaded firearm on one's person; or in the immediate control of a person, not licensed under the personal and family protection act while on property open to the public;
State Law says Cities or Counties can only regulate a loaded firearm. Nowhere does it say ban or unloaded. (except in a vehicle)
You are correct in your statement that cities can be more restrictive than state law but I believe that over restrictions, banning, and requiring unloaded (except in a vehicle) is not conforming to KS state law.
So cities like Kansas City, KS and Overland Park, which have a complete ban on open carry, are breaking state law. In addition Wichita is breaking state law by requiring unloaded open carry. (except in a vehicle)
This is my opinion and I am not a lawyer.
Marine0300
Saefrog,
Thank you for the post.
I partially disagree with you on Fact #2
I will not post all of the open carry law 12-16,124 but just the section I believe your referring to:
KS State Open Carry Law:
(b) Nothing in this section shall:
(2) prohibit a city or county from regulating the manner of openly carrying a loaded firearm on one's person; or in the immediate control of a person, not licensed under the personal and family protection act while on property open to the public;
State Law says Cities or Counties can only regulate a loaded firearm. Nowhere does it say ban or unloaded. (except in a vehicle)
You are correct in your statement that cities can be more restrictive than state law but I believe that over restrictions, banning, and requiring unloaded (except in a vehicle) is not conforming to KS state law.
So cities like Kansas City, KS and Overland Park, which have a complete ban on open carry, are breaking state law. In addition Wichita is breaking state law by requiring unloaded open carry. (except in a vehicle)
This is my opinion and I am not a lawyer.
Marine0300
MKEgal
Regular Member
Here in WI we (currently) only have open carry, and in a car it has to be unloaded & encased.
So we do a lot of extra (dangerous, unneccessary) handling of our weapons.
Once in a while someone gets a little wide-eyed seeing a carrier get the gun out of the case in the trunk, rack the slide, & holster, but most of the time it doesn't cause any problem.
In fact, most of the problems we have are with the police! (You might have seen stories about the Madison 5 last month; my case from 04JUL should hit the news in the next week or so.)
Besides, you exercising your rights is not and can never be wrong as long as you're not threatening or being otherwise disorderly. Heck, check out the Skokie, IL Nazi march from a couple decades back - the city had to issue a parade permit because freedom of assembly & speech were more important than the discomfort the Nazi presence would cause the (many many) Jewish residents.
Damiansar-15
Regular Member
He is a WPD cop
SAEFrog is a cop in Wichita, which provides him law enforcement authority only...Take legal advice from your lawyer or city attorney to be safe. Since the city does not bother to respond to questions from citizens, I suppose a local lawyer is your best bet. When in doubt WPD will cuff/stuff until a DA/superviser can sort things out... The only non-legal advice that I can provide on OC in Wichita is to carry recording device to help support a lawsuit against the city if WPD tramps on your rights...
SAEFrog is a cop in Wichita, which provides him law enforcement authority only...Take legal advice from your lawyer or city attorney to be safe. Since the city does not bother to respond to questions from citizens, I suppose a local lawyer is your best bet. When in doubt WPD will cuff/stuff until a DA/superviser can sort things out... The only non-legal advice that I can provide on OC in Wichita is to carry recording device to help support a lawsuit against the city if WPD tramps on your rights...
LordFuzzywig
New member
Not Off-topic, per se...
Hello everyone. I can't think of a better thread to post this on, and I certainly don't see it being productive if I just created a new thread, so I figure I'll post here. I apologise as this post may be lengthy.
I've just turned 21, and I vehemently support open carry for a great list of reasons. I'm not a right-wing nut-job, nor a gun fetishist, or anything else. I have owned two weapons in my lifetime, and I'm selling one right now, to just keep my handgun. I believe in exercising rights, however, and also fully believe that a right not used is a right to be taken away.
As someone who doesn't live "in" Wichita, but must visit daily, I am really getting miffed about all this.
In my every day life, I get frustrated with double-standards or rules that don't much sense, so when I heard about Wichita's ban on loaded OC, but knew from my CCHL class that loaded CC is legal, I was fuming to say the least. How can I legally conceal a loaded gun but not have a loaded weapon visible to the public? Is a concealed loaded weapon not more dangerous to the average Joe Schmoe walking the street than if I knew a fellow was walking at me with a gun at his side? If my weapon is printing am I "open carrying"? If so, have I committed a crime because that weapon, though meant to be concealed, is being broadcasted while loaded?
This kind of gray area bothers the snot out of me.
So the point of my thread is actually three-fold:
#1:
I have contacted the following people with absolutely NO information given to me properly. I asked, precisely this, in these words:
"My name is Justin <surname> and I am inquiring about Wichita Municipal Code. I'm a little uncertain exactly how to interpret this law regarding the carrying of firearms in the city of Wichita so I'm looking for some clarification. Would you be able to help me?"
(Naturally at this point they say either yes, let me forward you to someone who can, or "I can try.")
"It is my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that in the city of Wichita, I can legally carry a concealed firearm loaded or unloaded with a CCHL permit, is that correct?"
(Obviously it is, so everyone responded unanimously here: yes, of course.)
"It is also my understanding that the Municipal Code states that it is illegal in the city of Wichita to carry a loaded weapon openly, is that also correct?"
"Okay, thank you. Here's where my problem comes in. In reading the Municipal Code relating to the carrying of firearms on one's person, there is nothing about openly carrying UNLOADED firearms openly. What is the law regarding that, if there is one?"
-Two WPD stations, with the first officer stating that I can't OC, period.
-Second WPD station forwarded me to the city prosecutor's office.
-Spoke with the City Prosecutor, she cited the ordinance that we all know (5.88.010) and actually told me -- this is no joke -- that a citizen can't have a pistol on them at all!
-I called the City Law Office and the person I spoke with there (no name mentioned) told me to contact the state but did not give me any names or numbers to contact.
-Contacted the Atty. General's office and was hung up on!
-Contacted a lawyer and did not receive an answer at all. Left a message on the answering machine.
#2:
Everyone here insists that unloaded OC is legal. If so, I fully intend to exercise this right (aye, in protest of the silly ban, and to raise awareness), so what exactly do I need to be prepared for, to watch out for, and what precautions should I take?
Is it illegal to have a loaded mag in a holder near the weapon?
I have never had any run-ins with the law, and I don't have a lawyer (any suggestions?), so I don't want to be unprepared if I ever do get approached. I am a very clean-cut, conservatively dressing young man. I look about 25 even though I just turned 21. I am not "thuggish" in my appearance I guess is what I'm trying to say, and as a volunteer, I have had a healthy working relationship with law enforcement, but have never been on the "bad end" of a conversation with them.
#3:
Is the OP scheduling another event? I would UNDOUBTEDLY be in attendance, and I would love to be as proactive about this issue as is humanly possible. Please let me know any information surrounding this and other issues!
With apologies for the walls of text,
Justin (Lord Fuzzywig)
Hello everyone. I can't think of a better thread to post this on, and I certainly don't see it being productive if I just created a new thread, so I figure I'll post here. I apologise as this post may be lengthy.
I've just turned 21, and I vehemently support open carry for a great list of reasons. I'm not a right-wing nut-job, nor a gun fetishist, or anything else. I have owned two weapons in my lifetime, and I'm selling one right now, to just keep my handgun. I believe in exercising rights, however, and also fully believe that a right not used is a right to be taken away.
As someone who doesn't live "in" Wichita, but must visit daily, I am really getting miffed about all this.
In my every day life, I get frustrated with double-standards or rules that don't much sense, so when I heard about Wichita's ban on loaded OC, but knew from my CCHL class that loaded CC is legal, I was fuming to say the least. How can I legally conceal a loaded gun but not have a loaded weapon visible to the public? Is a concealed loaded weapon not more dangerous to the average Joe Schmoe walking the street than if I knew a fellow was walking at me with a gun at his side? If my weapon is printing am I "open carrying"? If so, have I committed a crime because that weapon, though meant to be concealed, is being broadcasted while loaded?
This kind of gray area bothers the snot out of me.
So the point of my thread is actually three-fold:
#1:
I have contacted the following people with absolutely NO information given to me properly. I asked, precisely this, in these words:
"My name is Justin <surname> and I am inquiring about Wichita Municipal Code. I'm a little uncertain exactly how to interpret this law regarding the carrying of firearms in the city of Wichita so I'm looking for some clarification. Would you be able to help me?"
(Naturally at this point they say either yes, let me forward you to someone who can, or "I can try.")
"It is my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that in the city of Wichita, I can legally carry a concealed firearm loaded or unloaded with a CCHL permit, is that correct?"
(Obviously it is, so everyone responded unanimously here: yes, of course.)
"It is also my understanding that the Municipal Code states that it is illegal in the city of Wichita to carry a loaded weapon openly, is that also correct?"
"Okay, thank you. Here's where my problem comes in. In reading the Municipal Code relating to the carrying of firearms on one's person, there is nothing about openly carrying UNLOADED firearms openly. What is the law regarding that, if there is one?"
-Two WPD stations, with the first officer stating that I can't OC, period.
-Second WPD station forwarded me to the city prosecutor's office.
-Spoke with the City Prosecutor, she cited the ordinance that we all know (5.88.010) and actually told me -- this is no joke -- that a citizen can't have a pistol on them at all!
-I called the City Law Office and the person I spoke with there (no name mentioned) told me to contact the state but did not give me any names or numbers to contact.
-Contacted the Atty. General's office and was hung up on!
-Contacted a lawyer and did not receive an answer at all. Left a message on the answering machine.
#2:
Everyone here insists that unloaded OC is legal. If so, I fully intend to exercise this right (aye, in protest of the silly ban, and to raise awareness), so what exactly do I need to be prepared for, to watch out for, and what precautions should I take?
Is it illegal to have a loaded mag in a holder near the weapon?
I have never had any run-ins with the law, and I don't have a lawyer (any suggestions?), so I don't want to be unprepared if I ever do get approached. I am a very clean-cut, conservatively dressing young man. I look about 25 even though I just turned 21. I am not "thuggish" in my appearance I guess is what I'm trying to say, and as a volunteer, I have had a healthy working relationship with law enforcement, but have never been on the "bad end" of a conversation with them.
#3:
Is the OP scheduling another event? I would UNDOUBTEDLY be in attendance, and I would love to be as proactive about this issue as is humanly possible. Please let me know any information surrounding this and other issues!
With apologies for the walls of text,
Justin (Lord Fuzzywig)
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Damiansar-15
Regular Member
Wichita OC experience
Am not a lawyer and can not provide legal advice, but this is what I suggest for myself:
#1 Wichita City government and Wichita LE community are full of statist and liberal elitest who believe only government officals should be armed. You are not going to get a response nor straight answer from most all that you contact. The captain that I mentioned in earlier posts who only responded to my communication after I sent out notice that I would be protesting might be a good contact. I am also disgusted that you have WPD telling you that OC is not legal, because they recently had training about this from Mary MacDonald (City Attorney). Mary won't respond to your e-mails, but she might take a call.
#2 Keep in mind that you will probably be aggressively approached (probably at gun point), put on the ground, and cuffed. I carry a recorder so that I can have great evidence to support my law suit against the city for violating my 4th Amend rights for assaulting me and detaining me without reasonable articulate suspicion and/or probable cause. Unloaded Open Carry is legal in Wichita and any offical who tells you differently is lying to you or incompetent at their job. I keep the city/State laws with me along with a few court cases that have ruled that having a legally OC gun is not grounds for RAS/probable cause to stop (see KS posting on RAS). There are also great open carry videos where citizens assert there knowledge and ask, "am I free to go", to hold LEOs accountable for detaining you. KS is also a State where you are not required to carry ID, so I don't give any, and I don't give consent to searches. I also put tape over my serial numbers with a note that they will need a search warrant to remove the tape to run my gun. I am sure that they will illegally take my gun and try to run it...
#3 I will be organizing another OC event in Feb when I am back home visiting and I will definitely post something here, so keep connected to this site. I am also getting a local network of folks who will be attending the next protest. I wanted to keep the first event small and well contained, but this next event will be much larger with $$ backers...
Am not a lawyer and can not provide legal advice, but this is what I suggest for myself:
#1 Wichita City government and Wichita LE community are full of statist and liberal elitest who believe only government officals should be armed. You are not going to get a response nor straight answer from most all that you contact. The captain that I mentioned in earlier posts who only responded to my communication after I sent out notice that I would be protesting might be a good contact. I am also disgusted that you have WPD telling you that OC is not legal, because they recently had training about this from Mary MacDonald (City Attorney). Mary won't respond to your e-mails, but she might take a call.
#2 Keep in mind that you will probably be aggressively approached (probably at gun point), put on the ground, and cuffed. I carry a recorder so that I can have great evidence to support my law suit against the city for violating my 4th Amend rights for assaulting me and detaining me without reasonable articulate suspicion and/or probable cause. Unloaded Open Carry is legal in Wichita and any offical who tells you differently is lying to you or incompetent at their job. I keep the city/State laws with me along with a few court cases that have ruled that having a legally OC gun is not grounds for RAS/probable cause to stop (see KS posting on RAS). There are also great open carry videos where citizens assert there knowledge and ask, "am I free to go", to hold LEOs accountable for detaining you. KS is also a State where you are not required to carry ID, so I don't give any, and I don't give consent to searches. I also put tape over my serial numbers with a note that they will need a search warrant to remove the tape to run my gun. I am sure that they will illegally take my gun and try to run it...
#3 I will be organizing another OC event in Feb when I am back home visiting and I will definitely post something here, so keep connected to this site. I am also getting a local network of folks who will be attending the next protest. I wanted to keep the first event small and well contained, but this next event will be much larger with $$ backers...
MM_45
Regular Member
Cool. Ill be happy to come back down and do another event with you.
LordFuzzywig
New member
I was able to get in touch with Beth Harlenski in the Wichita Law Office yesterday and she said that, yes, "by the law" it is legal to OC a weapon in the city of Wichita. She then went on a (well-warranted I will admit) 5 minute dissertation that it would be dangerous and would drain LEO time and taxpayer money because of MWAG calls and things like that. She said it probably would not be met with much appreciation and that it was not in the spirit of the law to carry your weapon openly and that the law was "much older than the concealed carry laws" and was meant to save citizens from being arrested just for walking out the door of a gun shop with their weapon.
About the best thing she said that I agree with was her concern that if I needed to use my weapon, I would most likely only have that unloaded weapon, which is essentially, in the city of Wichita, a paperweight on my hip.
Awesome! If you need any funds or anything, don't hesitate to PM me and I'd be more than eager to help pitch in. This issue means a lot to me. The advantages of OC to me are numerous, and I guess I can't help but find myself frustrated with the draconian laws of Wichita. The city I personally live in uses the UPOC which doesn't have any provisions regarding the open carry of firearms, so I open carry here but I spend more time in Wichita.Damiansar-15 said:
Do you have any ideas on what we might be doing? I could definitely gain interest (and funds) from people I know.
Awesome! It'll be cool to meet you, MM_45!
Be safe,
Justin
MM_45
Regular Member
It'll be nice to meet you to LordFuzzywig.
Damiansar-15
Regular Member
Rights of Minority Groups
Man, I might call Beth myself to address her selfish and small-minded perspective on citizens' rights. I appreciate that you called, because I believe that the more folks who ask questions, address city council, protest, etc... the more the city will be forced to acknowledge citizens' rights.
By calling your empty pistol a "paper weight", she basically made the argument against the city that they are indeed illegally banning the right of the people in the State of Kansas to defend themselves firearms due to Wichita’s ordinance which turns a pistol into a "paper weight". Idiot!
LEO are only dispatched to a situation where someone is breaking law, disturbance, etc... So, if someone calls dispatch about a guy walking around with a holstered gun, dispatch should be trained properly to determine that OC is legal and inform the citizen. At one time in KS, we had ignorant people who would complain about "feeling" uncomfortable or intimidated when people of color were near them at cafes, restrooms, etc…but we all know that this was wrong and it was breaking a minority groups’ civil rights to stop people from exercising their civil rights in public. Beth should talk with other city attorney’s in OC regions who have no “real” issues and enjoy a low crime rate. Wichita could benefit from lower crime rates, since they also are not properly funding WPD with enough equipment and are far below the number of officers needed to support a city the size of Wichita.
The Kansas Constitution also says that it is illegally to tax and license a civil right. Can you imagine if you needed to pay $150 in order to vote and/or show that you are competent enough to vote? While some might argue that this might lead to a more educated decision, it is not right and goes against the Constitution. So, having a CHL does not negate the ability to exercise one’s rights, because current laws are too old. Our US Constitution is pretty old too, but I think we should follow it and/or amend it if it needs to adapt to the times. Does she think Wichita should follow the “spirit” of KS laws which allow OC and recognizes the right of the individual to be armed for personal defense?
Paper weight? Work on your mag changes and in less than 1.5 seconds, you should have a fully operational pistol ready to spit bad guy repellant…
Man, I might call Beth myself to address her selfish and small-minded perspective on citizens' rights. I appreciate that you called, because I believe that the more folks who ask questions, address city council, protest, etc... the more the city will be forced to acknowledge citizens' rights.
By calling your empty pistol a "paper weight", she basically made the argument against the city that they are indeed illegally banning the right of the people in the State of Kansas to defend themselves firearms due to Wichita’s ordinance which turns a pistol into a "paper weight". Idiot!
LEO are only dispatched to a situation where someone is breaking law, disturbance, etc... So, if someone calls dispatch about a guy walking around with a holstered gun, dispatch should be trained properly to determine that OC is legal and inform the citizen. At one time in KS, we had ignorant people who would complain about "feeling" uncomfortable or intimidated when people of color were near them at cafes, restrooms, etc…but we all know that this was wrong and it was breaking a minority groups’ civil rights to stop people from exercising their civil rights in public. Beth should talk with other city attorney’s in OC regions who have no “real” issues and enjoy a low crime rate. Wichita could benefit from lower crime rates, since they also are not properly funding WPD with enough equipment and are far below the number of officers needed to support a city the size of Wichita.
The Kansas Constitution also says that it is illegally to tax and license a civil right. Can you imagine if you needed to pay $150 in order to vote and/or show that you are competent enough to vote? While some might argue that this might lead to a more educated decision, it is not right and goes against the Constitution. So, having a CHL does not negate the ability to exercise one’s rights, because current laws are too old. Our US Constitution is pretty old too, but I think we should follow it and/or amend it if it needs to adapt to the times. Does she think Wichita should follow the “spirit” of KS laws which allow OC and recognizes the right of the individual to be armed for personal defense?
Paper weight? Work on your mag changes and in less than 1.5 seconds, you should have a fully operational pistol ready to spit bad guy repellant…
t_mhandyman
New member
Open carry in wichita, ks
It seems to me extremely unclear on the laws concerning open carry in Wichita. One person says its legal to carry unloaded on my hip unconcealed. The other saying its flat out illegal to carry at all. Then what exactly are we calling "unloaded"? Can I have a magazine in the weapon with the chamber empty or can I have no magazine at all. My holster has a spot right on top to carry a mag. I would really appreciate some clarification before I walk into a quicktrip with a gun on my hip and get shot by WPD.
Thanks, Tim
It seems to me extremely unclear on the laws concerning open carry in Wichita. One person says its legal to carry unloaded on my hip unconcealed. The other saying its flat out illegal to carry at all. Then what exactly are we calling "unloaded"? Can I have a magazine in the weapon with the chamber empty or can I have no magazine at all. My holster has a spot right on top to carry a mag. I would really appreciate some clarification before I walk into a quicktrip with a gun on my hip and get shot by WPD.
Thanks, Tim
LordFuzzywig
New member
It's hard to get to the bottom of it, even if you talk to the bureaucracy. IANAL, but I will cite what the Wichita Municipal Code states.
Sec. 5.88.010. Unlawful use of weapons. said:
All due respect, it's pretty obvious. When you clean your weapon, you call it unloaded because there are no rounds in or around the weapon, right?t_mhandyman said:
There are four conditions for carrying a weapon:
Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked" - You're firing the weapon, or can pull the trigger and fire the weapon. Round in the tube, mag in the well, hammer cocked if applicable, safety off if applicable.
Condition 2 "Awkward" - Same as condition one except the hammer is down if applicable.
Condition 3 "Half-loaded" - Loaded mag in the well, nothing in the tube, hammer down, safety on.
Condition 4 "Unloaded" - No mag in the well, nothing in the tube, safety on, hammer down.
Only one of those is unloaded, and it's condition 4. If you carry any other way, you're violating law and you're going to have a really pissed off policeman.
No magazine can be in the weapon, as that is a loaded weapon.t_myhandyman said:
I do not think you would be violating any law there, but a policeman may not be happy with that. I keep my magazine in my opposing pocket. If I carry on my right hip, the magazine is in my left pocket. This allows for a more fluid "draw, and make ready" motion. I turn the weapon away from my target (putting my left side toward the target) and as I draw my weapon, I pull the magazine out and insert it. My left hand is then right next to the weapon to reciprocate the slide and chamber a round.t_myhandyman said:
For my personal tastes, it would be too awkward to have a magazine on that side, even if it was a quickload because my left hand would still be too far for me to quickly cycle. Granted, I've never used a speedloader before, but I can imagine I wouldn't be fond of it.
Without doing lots of research first, it would be best if you open carried with friends on members of this forum before open carrying alone. Have you open carried before? There is always strength in numbers, so if one or both of you are questioned, you can let one do the talking while the other records. Always lawyer up, don't talk any more than you have to, and have PRINTED a copy of the Wichita Municipal Code Section 5.88.010 as well as any other pertinent documentation such as reasonable articulate suspicion etc. You are not required to provide an ID, as you are not in a vehicle. This, however, makes plenty of officers unhappy.t_myhandyman said:
If you are asked to leave ANYWHERE, you are required to leave, whether or not there is appropriate "No Firearms" documentation. Meaning if I go to Dillon's and a manager asks me to leave or put my firearm in my vehicle, I must do so. A cashier or whomever else doesn't really have any authority. They make a comment at you and say, "Is that a gun?" or "Why are you carrying that?"
You do have a few options here, and none of them are "wrong". The way I do it, is I get a feel for why they're asking. Are they asking because they want to be snide? Is it obvious they don't like guns? If so, I say something to the effect of, "Well, if it's all the same to you, I'd just like to be shopping and be on my way."
If they are genuinely curious, don't hesitate to inform them about the laws here in Wichita! Explain to them how ass-backward the law is here! Direct them to this forum! Give them a business card for them to contact you if they have any more questions, for goodness' sake! Be nice!
BUT.......
Do not resist lawful OR unlawful arrest. You will not win on the side of the street, much less with a weapon at your side. Be polite. Do not handle your weapon in any way in public, do not motion toward your gun in front of an LEO. Follow their instructions. If you would feel more comfortable meeting beforehand, please do not hesitate to PM me. I open carry 24/7 in my apartment complex, some or most of the time when I go out to eat, and I'm still trying to respect the presence of children so I have not yet open carried in supermarkets or any stores at all.
You will get looked at strangely. If this bothers you, get more comfortable with open carry at home until you basically don't notice the gun at your side. It's a 9mm tumour for most people and they're going to look at it -- and you -- that way. If you are self-conscious about it, it's something you'll have to get over.
I was actually just about to post a "My Open Carry Wichita Experience" thread that I'd encourage you to look at.
Anyway, like I said, don't hesitate to PM me and I'll give you my cell phone so we can arrange a time and date to meet up between the two of us.
Warm regards and be safe,
Justin