Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: .44-40 rifle talk

  1. #1
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451

    .44-40 rifle talk

    Hey all,
    I've got a b-day coming up, and since I've been wanting a new long gun for a while I figured I might as well get one. I've always been a lover of lever action guns, and although I was considering getting a 30-30, I have started considering getting a .44-40 that shoots pistol rounds.

    I've never had a long gun that fires that sort of ammo, so I was wondering how it stacks up to a gun that shoots rifle rounds. Does it have any range outside 200 yards? Anyone out there got any pros-cons or opinions about how it would stand up if zombies attacked?

  2. #2
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    You can shoot them at 500 yards all day.

    The limiting factor will be trajectory, and at that range it may or may not have enough power to kill cleanly if you are using it for hunting.

    I use a 45-70 lever gun. I love it. That one Does have enough energy for a clean kill at even 1000 yards.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    SEMO, , USA
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    They are not discussing long gun "carry", they are discussing long guns themselves which is not prohibited. At worst the OP should have put this in the "Social Lounge" forum, but I have seen threads that had much less to do with OC and 2A than this one here in the "General Discussion" forum.

  5. #5
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    Why can't members leave the business of being a self appointed topic cop to John and Mike? Must you guys show a superior knowledge of the forum rules on a constant basis? You can't do anything about it, not one thing. I don't care for off-topic threads either, but why not leave it to the guys that can do something about it?

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193
    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Why can't members leave the business of being a self appointed topic cop to John and Mike? Must you guys show a superior knowledge of the forum rules on a constant basis? You can't do anything about it, not one thing. I don't care for off-topic threads either, but why not leave it to the guys that can do something about it?
    They have lives too and expect us to self-regulate which the children of all ages seem unable to do. The law abides only the law abiding, the rules abide only the rule abiding.

  7. #7
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    Either way doug, you are wrong. Move on.

    Anyway, to the OP, what are your purposes for the rifle anyway?

    Hunting? Paper punching?

    The original black powder loading for the 44 WCF (44-40) propelled a 200 grain bullet at about 1300 fps. Very similar to the 10mm auto in similar bullet weights. Later loadings using smokeless powder (okay in a modern lever gun) get more on the order of 1500 fps in a 200 gr loading.

    It also does it with much lower pressures.

    Now, a lever gun in 357 magnum/ 38 spcl would be cheaper to shoot if you aren't reloading, and are plenty powerful for most things.
    Last edited by thx997303; 08-05-2010 at 07:47 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    They have lives too and expect us to self-regulate which the children of all ages seem unable to do. The law abides only the law abiding, the rules abide only the rule abiding.
    Yes, I know all of this. The problem is, you can't delete or lock the post. Why waste the bandwidth to jump on somebody about it? Sound like a bunch of children.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Forum Rule #8

    (8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    This is more for making readers aware than for criticizing. The General Discussion subforum is for gun rights discussions that are not directly related to open carry. Topics not related to gun rights now go to the Social Lounge subforum.

    While the OP is about guns, it is not about gun rights; thus, it and similar gun characteristics discussions would go in the Social Lounge.

    It occurs to me that if we police ourselves, it makes life easier for John and Mike. We can help by putting our threads into the requested categories. I'm guessing that as the new Social Lounge becomes better known, things will smooth out.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-06-2010 at 02:17 AM.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193
    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Oh, Dougie, you kicked over the spitune.
    As well written as thought. 'Spitune' suggests a not unexpected taste in 'music'.

  11. #11
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    Unfortunately Citizen, the OP cannot move his topic now.

    I am unsure whether the Lounge forum existed or if the OP even knew it existed at the time he posted this thread.

    Anyway, it's quite rude to hijack threads.

  12. #12
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    As well written as thought. 'Spitune' suggests a not unexpected taste in 'music'.
    And my "not unexpected" taste in music is.....?

  13. #13
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by thx997303 View Post
    Either way doug, you are wrong. Move on.

    Anyway, to the OP, what are your purposes for the rifle anyway?

    Hunting? Paper punching?

    .
    Looking for a good all around rifle. Something that I can hunt deer and coyote with, do a little target practice around 500 yards, and use to defend the household with if need be. I usually hunt with a 30-30, which is a great gun, but since the .44-40 fires pistol rounds I wanted to know if it would still be accurate and have enough punch to drop a deer in the mid-ranges.

  14. #14
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    Forum: General Discussion
    Use this area for discussions that are somewhat off-topic or that do not fit anywhere else.

    ^^^That's the description of the general forum, I just copied it off the Open Carry Brigade page. You're right, long gun carry IS somewhat off topic, which is why I posted it here in accordance with the description.

  15. #15
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    Here's a link to an article for you OP.

    http://www.leverguns.com/articles/4440.htm

  16. #16
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    500yards

    Is way past the useful/accurate range of straight cased bullets.

    You need to look into the 300/336 Marlins, scoped.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  17. #17
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    Your assertion is inaccurate.

    http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm

    The 45-70 used in that test is a straight walled case, and when loaded with 405 gr bullets, would do around 1300 fps.

    The 45-70 proved accurate and effective at 2 1/2 miles.

    Not only that, but the 357 maximum is also a straight walled case and delivers a 158 gr bullet at about 2000 fps.

    That round only drops about 150 inches at 500 yards.

    With a proper vernier or tang sight, these cartridges are easily capable of 500 yard shooting.

  18. #18
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Stop being silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by thx997303 View Post
    Your assertion is inaccurate.

    http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm

    The 45-70 used in that test is a straight walled case, and when loaded with 405 gr bullets, would do around 1300 fps.

    The 45-70 proved accurate and effective at 2 1/2 miles.

    Not only that, but the 357 maximum is also a straight walled case and delivers a 158 gr bullet at about 2000 fps.

    That round only drops about 150 inches at 500 yards.

    With a proper vernier or tang sight, these cartridges are easily capable of 500 yard shooting.
    It was not proven accurate. The 45-70 took 15 seconds and hit a 6 foot bullseye. - Totally useless for anything but bragging rights. (Speaking of which, the man who made the shot is a world record holder, and is an exception in himself)

    The 45-70 at 2.5 miles would be corkscrewing with a diameter much bigger than the vital area of any game in North America. The amount of variance due simply to a slight change in wind velocity during that 15 seconds could be dozens of feet.

    Your cite is completely useless, as it admits to being a statistical outlier, admits to using a bulls-eye that is useless in size,

    the 357 maximum is uncommon, as no mainstream manufacturers make it anymore. It would be a decent rifle cartridge, though it seems unnecessary when you have the 35remington for lever-guns.

    But if you want to discuss a cartridge that may have the longest useful range, I would like to see a lever-gun chambered for the 460XVR (s&w).
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-12-2010 at 11:06 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  19. #19
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    The point I was illustrating, is that saying a straight walled case is useless at 500 yards is wrong.

    The fact is, creedmore matches are shot at 1000 yards with straight walled black powder cartridges. The target is 36" and the x ring is 20'' These matches are shot with iron sights.

    These are not "statistical outliers" as these people do these matches regularly.

    The limiting factor with these straight walled cases is the shooter, not the cartridge.

  20. #20
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Again---

    Quote Originally Posted by thx997303 View Post
    The point I was illustrating, is that saying a straight walled case is useless at 500 yards is wrong.

    The fact is, creedmore matches are shot at 1000 yards with straight walled black powder cartridges. The target is 36" and the x ring is 20'' These matches are shot with iron sights.

    These are not "statistical outliers" as these people do these matches regularly.

    The limiting factor with these straight walled cases is the shooter, not the cartridge.
    ABSOLuteLY USELESs FoR ANYthIng but BraGGING RIGHtS

    Which I know is many people's cup of tea. Sure it is neat, fun, and historical. You really need to understand that just because it is cool doesn't make it practical. If you like doing that stuff fine, just be honest its the cool factor and don't try and place it in the same category as modern ballistics.

    You realize when you go fanboy on something, and ignore the reality of it, your actually insulting it. If your unwilling to accept something's limitations, and unwilling to accept the relativity of it's abilities, you don't actually care for it. You care about the idea of it.

    If the OP wants a lever-gun with 500yard capability, he will be well served with one of the new Marlin cartridges.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-13-2010 at 01:22 AM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  21. #21
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    It's useless arguing with someone so set.

    I am no "fanboy" of straight walled cartridges, I do have a few.

    Hitting a 20" target at 1000 yards with as much or more remaining velocity as a 45 acp at the muzzle is useless?

    I'm not saying they are better than anything, merely that they are capable of these ranges.
    Last edited by thx997303; 08-13-2010 at 12:30 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Ugh!

    Quote Originally Posted by thx997303 View Post
    It's useless arguing with someone so set.

    I am no "fanboy" of straight walled cartridges, I do have a few.

    Hitting a 20" target at 1000 yards with as much or more remaining velocity as a 45 acp at the muzzle is useless?

    I'm not saying they are better than anything, merely that they are capable of these ranges.
    w/e I'm done with you. I've given enough info for the OP to make an informed decision on range capabilities. I don't need to convince you.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  23. #23
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    About where this thread belongs:

    Since it is NOT about long gun carry but IS about guns, I am happy to have it in either the Social Lounge or General Discussion.


    John

  24. #24
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716
    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    w/e I'm done with you. I've given enough info for the OP to make an informed decision on range capabilities. I don't need to convince you.
    You have given no information.

    You have merely made an inaccurate statement, and then just continued to spew your opinion.

    With most cartridges, the limiting factor is the shooter, not the gun or cartridge.

    I'm also done with this discussion.

  25. #25
    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    228
    I too am interested in a lever gun that take handgun rounds. I have two Marlins now, .30-.30 & .45-70. I am not overly thrilled with the .45 colt but my next lever gun will definitely be a hand gun round, just not sure witch one. The main target is paper but if something with a little more mass needs shootin at, I don't want a cartridge that can't handle it. Open to suggestions.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •