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Thread: Low light defensive pistol shooting...

  1. #1
    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Cool Low light defensive pistol shooting...

    I got to practice it for the first time yesterday evening.

    Thoughts:

    I was 'point shooting' alot, it was working well, even though my pistol has night sights, and I had a hand held mag light, the shots were smoother and easier with point shooting. I only practice point shooting about 15% of the time I'm working with a handgun, but I was imprssed with the results. The light actually helps you point more naturally, or so it felt to me. (Even point shooting a man sized target 15-20 yards away.

    Watching the muzzle bloom illuminate cardboard cutouts is awesome. Watching your muzzle bloom illuminate the man you're shooting in a defensive situation would be scary!!

    Malfunction drills are a whole new challenge while attempting to properly manipulate a flashlight and firearm.

    I shoot better one hand, unsupported in the night, than I shoot one hand unsupported in the day!

    Last edited by SsevenN; 08-04-2010 at 01:00 PM.

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    Ahhhhhh.... low light drills... good times!

    The hardest part for me is the dang muzzle flash from the +P rounds. Pupils dancing back and forth from dark to FLASH! to dark... it takes a lot of getting used to.

    Using a two handed technique with my Surefire and clearing a misfire was also tough to get used to. Do you use dummy rounds stuffed randomly in the clip to simulate?

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    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    Ahhhhhh.... low light drills... good times!

    The hardest part for me is the dang muzzle flash from the +P rounds. Pupils dancing back and forth from dark to FLASH! to dark... it takes a lot of getting used to.

    Using a two handed technique with my Surefire and clearing a misfire was also tough to get used to. Do you use dummy rounds stuffed randomly in the clip to simulate?
    A combination of snap caps and spent brass. The snap caps for failure to fires and the spent brass (sometimes) creates failures to load, or something resembeling a stovepipe.

    I was shooting target loads from my 4" barreled 75SP-01, so the muzzle flash wasn't too intense.

    My buddy was shooting his handloaded .45ACP wadcutters, it was AMAZING how much visible smoke they created in low-light.

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    Never thought of using spent brass, good idea... that should stovepipe REAL GOOD


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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    I see you are using the Harries technique. This works great for outside or open areas, but if you have to clear somewhere close quarters like your home, I would suggest keeping your firearm close to your chest and with your off hand, hold your light out away from your body and above your head. If you come around a corner, someone will grab your flashlight hand, and then you can still present your firearm.

  6. #6
    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    Never thought of using spent brass, good idea... that should stovepipe REAL GOOD

    Can't take credit for the idea, some local guys that have been shooting way longer(than I) showed me that.
    Last edited by SsevenN; 08-04-2010 at 03:37 PM.

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    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I see you are using the Harries technique. This works great for outside or open areas, but if you have to clear somewhere close quarters like your home, I would suggest keeping your firearm close to your chest and with your off hand, hold your light out away from your body and above your head. If you come around a corner, someone will grab your flashlight hand, and then you can still present your firearm.
    Excellent points, I will make sure to try that.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    It is all about the AMMO!

    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    Ahhhhhh.... low light drills... good times!

    The hardest part for me is the dang muzzle flash from the +P rounds. Pupils dancing back and forth from dark to FLASH! to dark... it takes a lot of getting used to.

    Using a two handed technique with my Surefire and clearing a misfire was also tough to get used to. Do you use dummy rounds stuffed randomly in the clip to simulate?
    Not all powder is created equally! Some ammo has flash suppressed powder (to different degrees)

    For instance, Buffalo Bore, who has the hottest carry rounds out there, also has some of the least flash. Even firing at night with a ported barrel you get a short low intensity blue flame. Its rather anti-climactic. Downside? about $25 bucks per 20, and minimum shipping is 10 bucks You get what you pay for.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-04-2010 at 11:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Not all powder is created equally! Some ammo has flash suppressed powder (to different degrees)

    For instance, Buffalo Bore, who has the hottest carry rounds out there, also has some of the least flash. Even firing at night with a ported barrel you get a short low intensity blue flame. Its rather anti-climactic. Downside? about $25 bucks per 20, and minimum shipping is 10 bucks You get what you pay for.
    Good to know... I am fairly monogamous when it comes to ammo. I sued to carry Corbon and loved it, but they dont make the PDA I used to buy. Currently I am shooting Federal 200 gr because it was all they had at the range on my last visit.

    I will be replacing those again with my Hornady +P's as soon as possible... I miss 1100 fps.

    The Hornady's really bloom in low light... have not tried the Federals yet...

    <edit> Out of curiosity, I wonder if the use of low flash powder adds to the higher velocity? Energy is energy... why not use it all to push the bullet rather than to create a light show?
    Last edited by daddy4count; 08-05-2010 at 03:52 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    His sight has some good info.

    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    Good to know... I am fairly monogamous when it comes to ammo. I sued to carry Corbon and loved it, but they dont make the PDA I used to buy. Currently I am shooting Federal 200 gr because it was all they had at the range on my last visit.

    I will be replacing those again with my Hornady +P's as soon as possible... I miss 1100 fps.

    The Hornady's really bloom in low light... have not tried the Federals yet...

    <edit> Out of curiosity, I wonder if the use of low flash powder adds to the higher velocity? Energy is energy... why not use it all to push the bullet rather than to create a light show?
    Basically his powders are designed for a flat constant pressure curve whereas many other manufacturers have a pressure spike. So even though he puts out more velocity and energy, the maximum pressure applied at any one instant to the case is actually lower than other manufacturers peak pressures.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-05-2010 at 05:01 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I see you are using the Harries technique. This works great for outside or open areas, but if you have to clear somewhere close quarters like your home, I would suggest keeping your firearm close to your chest and with your off hand, hold your light out away from your body and above your head. If you come around a corner, someone will grab your flashlight hand, and then you can still present your firearm.

    I ponied up the cash for an Insight M6 Light/Laser for HD. I liked it just for the point and shoot aspect, and I hope my wife will learn how to shoot w/ it once we start training. I think it would still be prudent to use a handheld light in conjunction w/ it just so you can have more than one line of sight and don't have to wave a gun around in the dark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Basically his powders are designed for a flat constant pressure curve whereas many other manufacturers have a pressure spike. So even though he puts out more velocity and energy, the maximum pressure applied at any one instant to the case is actually lower than other manufacturers peak pressures.
    very interesting...

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    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    I wanted to throw this video out here.... It's nothing special, just a reference point for me to improve upon. But it does have a little bit of low light training in it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQMWXiuLZV8

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    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbitone View Post
    I want to know where he got the Combat Cat(see left side of screen). See you put "Combat" in front of a word and it makes it "Tacta-cool". You want a Combat Cat of your own now don't you?

    ^ No idea what made me think of this.
    Haha, I should have been more clear. That's me in the video, I've gotten some great feedback from some other sites about stuff I was doing wrong. It's a useful film to help understand where your current limitations are. (I'm still very limited )

    I got my cat (named Luger) from the local animal shelter.

    I should sew him up a load bearing vest so he can carry my spare mags.
    Last edited by SsevenN; 08-06-2010 at 04:05 PM.

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    Glad to see you're training. I certainly wish more folks would practice such levels of training that are beyond going to the range and putting a mag or 2 down range on static paper then going home.

    I went to an IDPA-style night shoot to watch and it looked a lot like I missed out.

  16. #16
    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    Glad to see you're training. I certainly wish more folks would practice such levels of training that are beyond going to the range and putting a mag or 2 down range on static paper then going home.

    I went to an IDPA-style night shoot to watch and it looked a lot like I missed out.
    Yeah practice practice.... Not to mention it's fun!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab7NPMqfiw8

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SsevenN View Post
    I was 'point shooting' alot, it was working well, even though my pistol has night sights, and I had a hand held mag light, the shots were smoother and easier with point shooting....I shoot better one hand, unsupported in the night, than I shoot one hand unsupported in the day!
    One handed point shooting out to about 15 feet is extremely fast and more than accurate enough at that distance. It works with your instincts, rather than contradicting them.

    I actually just found and joined a forum that exists solely to talk about point shooting. http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

    Not a lot of posting going on there, but it amounts to a stockpile of point shooting information, and since it's such a slow forum, it's actually quite easy and fast to read over whatever you want to know.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-14-2010 at 08:39 AM.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Here is another forum focused on point shooting and other serious tactics. Tactical Shooting Forums http://www.tacticalshooting.com/index.php

    D.R. Middlebrooks developed and teaches the "Fist-Fire" point and shoot techniques that I use in all of my classes.
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