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Low light defensive pistol shooting...

SsevenN

SsevenN

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Joined
Mar 23, 2009
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79
Location
Farmington, New Mexico, USA
I got to practice it for the first time yesterday evening.

Thoughts:

I was 'point shooting' alot, it was working well, even though my pistol has night sights, and I had a hand held mag light, the shots were smoother and easier with point shooting. I only practice point shooting about 15% of the time I'm working with a handgun, but I was imprssed with the results. The light actually helps you point more naturally, or so it felt to me. (Even point shooting a man sized target 15-20 yards away.

Watching the muzzle bloom illuminate cardboard cutouts is awesome. Watching your muzzle bloom illuminate the man you're shooting in a defensive situation would be scary!!

Malfunction drills are a whole new challenge while attempting to properly manipulate a flashlight and firearm.

I shoot better one hand, unsupported in the night, than I shoot one hand unsupported in the day!

utf-8BSU1HMDA2NDcuanBn.jpg
 
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daddy4count

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May 11, 2010
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513
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Seattle, Washington, USA
Ahhhhhh.... low light drills... good times!

The hardest part for me is the dang muzzle flash from the +P rounds. Pupils dancing back and forth from dark to FLASH! to dark... it takes a lot of getting used to.

Using a two handed technique with my Surefire and clearing a misfire was also tough to get used to. Do you use dummy rounds stuffed randomly in the clip to simulate?
 
SsevenN

SsevenN

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Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
79
Location
Farmington, New Mexico, USA
daddy4count said:
Ahhhhhh.... low light drills... good times!

The hardest part for me is the dang muzzle flash from the +P rounds. Pupils dancing back and forth from dark to FLASH! to dark... it takes a lot of getting used to.

Using a two handed technique with my Surefire and clearing a misfire was also tough to get used to. Do you use dummy rounds stuffed randomly in the clip to simulate?
Click to expand...

A combination of snap caps and spent brass. The snap caps for failure to fires and the spent brass (sometimes) creates failures to load, or something resembeling a stovepipe.

I was shooting target loads from my 4" barreled 75SP-01, so the muzzle flash wasn't too intense.

My buddy was shooting his handloaded .45ACP wadcutters, it was AMAZING how much visible smoke they created in low-light.
 
Ian

Ian

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Nov 11, 2007
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Austin, TX
I see you are using the Harries technique. This works great for outside or open areas, but if you have to clear somewhere close quarters like your home, I would suggest keeping your firearm close to your chest and with your off hand, hold your light out away from your body and above your head. If you come around a corner, someone will grab your flashlight hand, and then you can still present your firearm.
 
SsevenN

SsevenN

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Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
79
Location
Farmington, New Mexico, USA
Ian said:
I see you are using the Harries technique. This works great for outside or open areas, but if you have to clear somewhere close quarters like your home, I would suggest keeping your firearm close to your chest and with your off hand, hold your light out away from your body and above your head. If you come around a corner, someone will grab your flashlight hand, and then you can still present your firearm.
Click to expand...

Excellent points, I will make sure to try that. ;)
 
S

simmonsjoe

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Nov 1, 2009
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Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
It is all about the AMMO!

daddy4count said:
Ahhhhhh.... low light drills... good times!

The hardest part for me is the dang muzzle flash from the +P rounds. Pupils dancing back and forth from dark to FLASH! to dark... it takes a lot of getting used to.

Using a two handed technique with my Surefire and clearing a misfire was also tough to get used to. Do you use dummy rounds stuffed randomly in the clip to simulate?
Click to expand...
Not all powder is created equally! Some ammo has flash suppressed powder (to different degrees)

For instance, Buffalo Bore, who has the hottest carry rounds out there, also has some of the least flash. Even firing at night with a ported barrel you get a short low intensity blue flame. Its rather anti-climactic. Downside? about $25 bucks per 20, and minimum shipping is 10 bucks :( You get what you pay for.
 
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daddy4count

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Seattle, Washington, USA
simmonsjoe said:
Not all powder is created equally! Some ammo has flash suppressed powder (to different degrees)

For instance, Buffalo Bore, who has the hottest carry rounds out there, also has some of the least flash. Even firing at night with a ported barrel you get a short low intensity blue flame. Its rather anti-climactic. Downside? about $25 bucks per 20, and minimum shipping is 10 bucks :( You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...
Good to know... I am fairly monogamous when it comes to ammo. I sued to carry Corbon and loved it, but they dont make the PDA I used to buy. Currently I am shooting Federal 200 gr because it was all they had at the range on my last visit.

I will be replacing those again with my Hornady +P's as soon as possible... I miss 1100 fps.

The Hornady's really bloom in low light... have not tried the Federals yet...

<edit> Out of curiosity, I wonder if the use of low flash powder adds to the higher velocity? Energy is energy... why not use it all to push the bullet rather than to create a light show?
 
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simmonsjoe

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Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
His sight has some good info.

daddy4count said:
Good to know... I am fairly monogamous when it comes to ammo. I sued to carry Corbon and loved it, but they dont make the PDA I used to buy. Currently I am shooting Federal 200 gr because it was all they had at the range on my last visit.

I will be replacing those again with my Hornady +P's as soon as possible... I miss 1100 fps.

The Hornady's really bloom in low light... have not tried the Federals yet...

<edit> Out of curiosity, I wonder if the use of low flash powder adds to the higher velocity? Energy is energy... why not use it all to push the bullet rather than to create a light show?
Click to expand...
Basically his powders are designed for a flat constant pressure curve whereas many other manufacturers have a pressure spike. So even though he puts out more velocity and energy, the maximum pressure applied at any one instant to the case is actually lower than other manufacturers peak pressures.
 
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PrayingForWar

PrayingForWar

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Sep 9, 2007
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The Real World.
Ian said:
I see you are using the Harries technique. This works great for outside or open areas, but if you have to clear somewhere close quarters like your home, I would suggest keeping your firearm close to your chest and with your off hand, hold your light out away from your body and above your head. If you come around a corner, someone will grab your flashlight hand, and then you can still present your firearm.
Click to expand...


I ponied up the cash for an Insight M6 Light/Laser for HD. I liked it just for the point and shoot aspect, and I hope my wife will learn how to shoot w/ it once we start training. I think it would still be prudent to use a handheld light in conjunction w/ it just so you can have more than one line of sight and don't have to wave a gun around in the dark.
 
D

daddy4count

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Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
513
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
simmonsjoe said:
Basically his powders are designed for a flat constant pressure curve whereas many other manufacturers have a pressure spike. So even though he puts out more velocity and energy, the maximum pressure applied at any one instant to the case is actually lower than other manufacturers peak pressures.
Click to expand...

very interesting...
 
SsevenN

SsevenN

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Mar 23, 2009
Messages
79
Location
Farmington, New Mexico, USA
cabbitone said:
I want to know where he got the Combat Cat(see left side of screen). See you put "Combat" in front of a word and it makes it "Tacta-cool". You want a Combat Cat of your own now don't you?

^ No idea what made me think of this.
Click to expand...

Haha, I should have been more clear. That's me in the video, I've gotten some great feedback from some other sites about stuff I was doing wrong. It's a useful film to help understand where your current limitations are. (I'm still very limited :D)

I got my cat (named Luger) from the local animal shelter.

I should sew him up a load bearing vest so he can carry my spare mags. ;)
 
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heresyourdipstickjimmy

Regular Member
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Jul 13, 2010
Messages
279
Location
Mo.
Glad to see you're training. I certainly wish more folks would practice such levels of training that are beyond going to the range and putting a mag or 2 down range on static paper then going home. :banghead:

I went to an IDPA-style night shoot to watch and it looked a lot like I missed out. :(
 
SsevenN

SsevenN

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Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
79
Location
Farmington, New Mexico, USA
heresyourdipstickjimmy said:
Glad to see you're training. I certainly wish more folks would practice such levels of training that are beyond going to the range and putting a mag or 2 down range on static paper then going home. :banghead:

I went to an IDPA-style night shoot to watch and it looked a lot like I missed out. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah practice practice....;) Not to mention it's fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab7NPMqfiw8
 
Michigander

Michigander

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Aug 24, 2007
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4,818
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Mulligan's Valley
SsevenN said:
I was 'point shooting' alot, it was working well, even though my pistol has night sights, and I had a hand held mag light, the shots were smoother and easier with point shooting....I shoot better one hand, unsupported in the night, than I shoot one hand unsupported in the day!
Click to expand...

One handed point shooting out to about 15 feet is extremely fast and more than accurate enough at that distance. It works with your instincts, rather than contradicting them.

I actually just found and joined a forum that exists solely to talk about point shooting. http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

Not a lot of posting going on there, but it amounts to a stockpile of point shooting information, and since it's such a slow forum, it's actually quite easy and fast to read over whatever you want to know.
 
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