Willow Run Air Show - Carry Not Allowed?

http://www.yankeeairmuseum.org/airshow/schedule.php

On the list of prohibited items is "weapons of any kind". Is this subject to firearms preemption? (I want to CC there.) I was told that carry on airport property is allowed as long as you don't have to pass through a secure area.

Thoughts? Cites?

Email sent to Herb Gillien, Marketing and Advertising. herb@herbgillen.com

Request for clarification.

Wow fast reply. I believe that he is wrong though. Only Sterile areas are restricted as far as I know.

REPLY>>>>>

Hi Agent1,

The FAA prohibits firearms or any other weapons on the airport grounds.

Thanks.

Herb


Herb Gillen

Herb Gillen Agency
1953 South Mallway Drive
Columbus, OH 43221
614.488.2828 (office)
614.488.3945 (fax)
www.herbgillen.com

The most important thing we create... is results.

Here is a sample FAA Airport Certification Manual.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/media/sample_ACM.pdf

The excerpt on Firearms:

G. Firearms

1. Sworn Peace Officers, private security patrol personnel on assignment by the airport and National Guard personnel are the only individuals allowed to possess loaded firearms on the airport property. All other people are required to case and unload firearms while on airport grounds. Sworn Peace Officers include but are not limited to representatives of the Gambrills Police Department, County Sheriff’s Department, Federal Marshals, State Game and Fish Wardens and State Highway Patrolman.

Click to expand...

Bronson

Looks to me like you can CC at the airshow.

You should e-mail back the guy from the airport with a quote from their own website:


http://www.metroairport.com/pdf/WCAA_Airport_Ordinance.pdf

WAYNE COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY
AIRPORT ORDINANCE
No Concealed Weapon or Explosive. Except as provided in Section 11.8 (e), a person shall not:
a. Carry on the Airport a deadly or dangerous weapon, concealed or otherwise, on or about his or her person or in property accessible to them prior to entering a Sterile Area or Secured Area unless the weapon:
1. if a firearm, is unloaded or, if not a firearm, is de-activated to the greatest possible extent; and
2. is packaged for shipment in a locked container or is otherwise secured; or
3. is in the possession of a Person licensed by the State to carry a concealed weapon.
b.

Click to expand...

preemption most likely applies, assuming wayne county airport authority is actually related to wayne county. If this is the case, then open carry without cpl should also be legal??

Welcome to Willow Run Airport


Managed by the Wayne County Airport Authority, Willow Run Airport is located seven miles west of Detroit Metropolitan Airport,

Click to expand...

http://www.willowrunairport.com/

here is an article on guns and airports....

http://www.eturbonews.com/5621/many-us-airports-guns-are-ok-outside-security

An Associated Press survey of the 20 busiest U.S. airports found that seven of them — Philadelphia, Detroit, Phoenix, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Dallas/Fort Worth, Los Angeles and San Francisco — let people with gun permits carry firearms in the general public areas of the terminal.

Click to expand...

I think preemption should apply. The only hesitation I have with this is that the last time I went there, (which was the last time) they were funneling people through a security checkpoint and illegaly searching everyone via K9. Therefore, they could try to say that the entire airshow area is a secure ie. sterile area.

the sterile areas are inside the airport and managed by TSA agents. Everyone who has flown in the past 9 years is familiar with the security gauntlet one is required to go through in order to get on a plane at a major airport. The other side of this security checkpoint is the sterile area.

Among other things, to enter the sterile area, you must have a boarding pass. (or have another exemption)

The general public at the air show will not have to enter a sterile area.

But what about what Bronson said? It looks like I can't, according to that.

Can anyone find the FAA regulation that proves they can't ban firearms unless in a secure area? The linked article above says the FAA can't do that, but there was no cite.

Also, how do I find out if the airport is state/county run? I'm going to the show on sunday and am hoping to figure all this out before then.

EM87 said:

Also, how do I find out if the airport is state/county run? I'm going to the show on sunday and am hoping to figure all this out before then.

Click to expand...

The airport is operated by the Wayne County Airport Authority as is Detro Metro.

Bronson said:

Here is a sample FAA Airport Certification Manual.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/media/sample_ACM.pdf

The excerpt on Firearms:



Bronson

Click to expand...

It looks like this was one that was approved and given as an example. BTW, this is from MARYLAND, you know, that bastion of freedom, especially when it comes to firearms. (sarcasm) I'm sure the airport authority incorporated state law into the document. (yes, MD has a law against weapons in airports)

Just sent this to Herb Gillen:

------------------------------------------------

Herb,

I am licensed to carry a concealed pistol in Michigan. I see on the website for the air show that "no weapons of any kind" are allowed. Can you please cite to the authority that allows this rule to be implemented? If you are not familiar with it, I should mention that Michigan has a firearm preemption law passed in 1990 that states:

"A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state."

I have bolded certain words for emphasis.

What this means is that if Willow Run Airport, which is "Managed by the Wayne County Airport Authority" (as quoted from www.willowrunairport.com), is indeed an airport run by the county (a "local unit of government", therefore covered by preemption) the possession of firearms cannot be prohibited. This, of course, does not apply to the sterile areas of the airport, per the FAA.

My question remains; can you cite to the authority that allows the legal carry of a firearm to be prohibited in the non-sterile areas of the Willow Run Airport?

Regards,

[EM87]

Ahhhh shoot, I forgot to include the cite to 123.1102 in the email. At least I quoted it word for word though, which makes in easy to find online if he chooses to look it up.

how can firearms be banned at any airport when it's perfectly legal to check a cased firearm for transport on a plane?

I think the real question here is whether or not the FAA considers the runway or viewing areas near the runways Sterile.

I agree that that is the question now. Anyone have that information? I can't look it up right now because I'm on an iPod touch.

Found a very interesting document...

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v03 tech admin/chapter 06/03_006_001.pdf

Page 13, 1.b talks about keeping the spectators OUT of the sterile areas. If anyone can read this document further to see if it speaks specifically about firearms, go for it!

scot623 said:

Found a very interesting document...

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v03 tech admin/chapter 06/03_006_001.pdf

Page 13, 1.b talks about keeping the spectators OUT of the sterile areas. If anyone can read this document further to see if it speaks specifically about firearms, go for it!

Click to expand...

No mention of firearms, when looking through other FAA regulations all that is mentioned is a person may not carry a firearm if they intend to board an aircraft.

Deleted for incorrect info.

Detroit metro allows cpl holders to possess firearms in the non-sterile areas..according to the AP and the airport ordinances.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_...sample_ACM.pdf

the above link is just a sample manual. It does not appear to be the final word on what is and is not allowed on airport property..

however, they may try to argue that preemption does NOT apply on the basis that the wcaa was created by an act of congress therefore they may feel that they are not a local unit of government.

The Wayne County Airport Authority was established under Senate Bill 690, which was signed into law on March 26, 2002, and became effective April 24, 2002. The Authority is responsible for the management and operation of Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport and Willow Run Airport - including the power to plan, promote, extend, maintain, acquire, purchase, construct, improve, repair, enlarge, and operate both Airports.

Click to expand...

I still feel you should be able to carry there as indicated by the wcaa ordinance.

As far as FAA regs go though, there is no mention of firearms outside the sterile area? And what defines the sterile area according the FAA?