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Prop 8 (relevant? oh yes.)

heliopolissolutions

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‎"Because Proposition 8 is unconstitutional under both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses, the court orders entry of judgment permanently enjoining its enforcement; prohibiting the official defendants from applying or enforcing Proposition 8 and directing the official defendants that all persons under their control or supervision shall not apply or enforce Proposition 8."

Mmmm.....
You don't have to like the gays to like liberty.

Now, when do we get some of those rulings based on due process and EPC?
 

bigtoe416

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It's absolutely relevant to open carry based on the law denying civil rights to some of the population. This was a no-brainer case for me to call. It obviously violates equal protection in the exact way that the Plessy v. Ferguson case violated equal protection. Separate but equal is not equal.

Can't wait to see the courts ruling on the same scenario soon with guns in place of marriage. Won't be long now.
 

Gundude

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I just saw on the news that Arnold and Jerry agreed with the ruling.
Nothing from Meg yet.
 
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John Pierce

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It's absolutely relevant to open carry based on the law denying civil rights to some of the population. This was a no-brainer case for me to call. It obviously violates equal protection in the exact way that the Plessy v. Ferguson case violated equal protection. Separate but equal is not equal.

Can't wait to see the courts ruling on the same scenario soon with guns in place of marriage. Won't be long now.

Now that we have incorporation, it will be interesting to see whether the 9th Circuit evaluates future gun cases based upon an analogy to First Amendment cases such as was the case in the recent 3rd Circuit decision or via analogy to privacy rights.

It is a good time to be a libertarian! :)


John
 

Sons of Liberty

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The enactment of the 14th amendment had nothing to do with gays and lesbians. It's context was very appropriate to the assured application of the 2nd amendment to slaves. This is another example of legal malpractice from a liberal judge. :banghead:
 

bigtoe416

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The enactment of the 14th amendment had nothing to do with gays and lesbians. It's context was very appropriate to the assured application of the 2nd amendment to slaves. This is another example of legal malpractice from a liberal judge. :banghead:

By that logic Plessy v. Ferguson was decided correctly. I'm afraid I must disagree. The fourteenth amendment says nothing about its context. I does say that the laws shall be applied equally. A law saying that only white men were allowed to be married would be unconstitutional under the 14th. A law saying that Chinese people can't testify against whites (a law that existed in CA in the 20th century) would also be unconstitutional under the 14th.

Can I get a citation for the context of the 14th being related to the 2nd?
 

KS_to_CA

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Maybe there is a lesson here.

Maybe we just need to force our issue down everybody's throat - so to speak.

Gun rights parade? Gun meet and greets on a regular basis? Hey, what about the "gun agenda" or "gun movement"?

I have met and talked to some gun owners who DONT even know open carry is legal in California. One of them even has two safe full of firearms.

We always say we gun owners are in the millions. But where are we really?

0.02
 

Sons of Liberty

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By that logic Plessy v. Ferguson was decided correctly. I'm afraid I must disagree. The fourteenth amendment says nothing about its context. I does say that the laws shall be applied equally. A law saying that only white men were allowed to be married would be unconstitutional under the 14th. A law saying that Chinese people can't testify against whites (a law that existed in CA in the 20th century) would also be unconstitutional under the 14th.

Can I get a citation for the context of the 14th being related to the 2nd?

The context of the 14th can be used to understand how it is to be applied. See McDonald v. Chicago. SCOTUS used the context of the 14th to apply the 2nd in this case. SCOTUS also used the context of the 2nd to understand the 2nd in DC v. Heller. Context has defining meaning. It is ludicrous to apply the 14th in the Prop 8 case. This is a case of political judicialism.
 

flagellum

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The context of the 14th can be used to understand how it is to be applied. See McDonald v. Chicago. SCOTUS used the context of the 14th to apply the 2nd in this case. SCOTUS also used the context of the 2nd to understand the 2nd in DC v. Heller. Context has defining meaning. It is ludicrous to apply the 14th in the Prop 8 case. This is a case of political judicialism.

I am curious to know, in your opinion, what negatives will come of prop 8 being overturned? All I see is an increase in Liberty.
 

Gundude

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The enactment of the 14th amendment had nothing to do with gays and lesbians. It's context was very appropriate to the assured application of the 2nd amendment to slaves. This is another example of legal malpractice from a liberal judge. :banghead:

What civil rights law, legislation, act of congress, privilege or immunity or ? should have been used in the decision on this proposition?
 

bigtoe416

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The context of the 14th can be used to understand how it is to be applied. See McDonald v. Chicago. SCOTUS used the context of the 14th to apply the 2nd in this case. SCOTUS also used the context of the 2nd to understand the 2nd in DC v. Heller. Context has defining meaning. It is ludicrous to apply the 14th in the Prop 8 case. This is a case of political judicialism.

Huh? You're using two SCOTUS cases specifically about the second amendment to prove that the 14th amendment applies only to guns? What about Brown v. Board of Education? That's about schools but the equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment applied heavily in that ruling.

Or what about Gitlow v. New York, a case which utilized the fourteenth amendment's incorporation clause to apply the right to freedom of speech to the states?

The citizen portion of the fourteenth amendment is clearly not about guns, take any case related to that portion and it will be about anything but firearms.

The due process clause applies our right to life, liberty, and property directly against the states (despite the fact that it exists already in the fifth amendment). While it could certainly be argued that our right to life, liberty and property exist thanks to the second amendment, it is used to prevent our government from infringing on any of our rights. Take Roe v. Wade for instance, the third holding directly cites the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment.

Maybe wikipedia is the wrong place to look? I would assume that it would be there if the fourteenth existed to apply the second amendment to freed slaves. I would also imagine that something would have been done about the continued denial of firearms to blacks after the fourteenth amendment was passed. It's kind of a huge failure of an amendment if it failed to have any impact at all until the mid 20th century.
 
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Sons of Liberty

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Huh? You're using two SCOTUS cases specifically about the second amendment to prove that the 14th amendment applies only to guns? What about Brown v. Board of Education? That's about schools but the equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment applied heavily in that ruling.

Or what about Gitlow v. New York, a case which utilized the fourteenth amendment's incorporation clause to apply the right to freedom of speech to the states?

The citizen portion of the fourteenth amendment is clearly not about guns, take any case related to that portion and it will be about anything but firearms.

The due process clause applies our right to life, liberty, and property directly against the states (despite the fact that it exists already in the fifth amendment). While it could certainly be argued that our right to life, liberty and property exist thanks to the second amendment, it is used to prevent our government from infringing on any of our rights. Take Roe v. Wade for instance, the third holding directly cites the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment.

Maybe wikipedia is the wrong place to look? I would assume that it would be there if the fourteenth existed to apply the second amendment to freed slaves. I would also imagine that something would have been done about the continued denial of firearms to blacks after the fourteenth amendment was passed. It's kind of a huge failure of an amendment if it failed to have any impact at all until the mid 20th century.

Wikipedia?! Only low life dirty scum accuse others of going to wikipedia without proof! This is obviously too personal of a topic for you to discuss when you have to get insulting!

When you think you can discuss the issues without the personal attacks, let me know.
 

Sons of Liberty

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I am curious to know, in your opinion, what negatives will come of prop 8 being overturned? All I see is an increase in Liberty.

An increase in liberty would be the government not to involve themselves in the issuances of marriage licenses at all! What I object to is activist judges taking issues out of context to further polical agendas. The ends do not justify the means by which such judges attempt to change society's topography and norms.
 

bigtoe416

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Sons of Liberty said:
Wikipedia?! Only low life dirty scum accuse others of going to wikipedia without proof! This is obviously too personal of a topic for you to discuss when you have to get insulting!

When you think you can discuss the issues without the personal attacks, let me know.

Surely you jest...?

An increase in liberty would be the government not to involve themselves in the issuances of marriage licenses at all!

Well we agree on that.
 

Gundude

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The enactment of the 14th amendment had nothing to do with gays and lesbians. It's context was very appropriate to the assured application of the 2nd amendment to slaves. This is another example of legal malpractice from a liberal judge. :banghead:

Ronald Regean tried to appoint him but he was deemed too conserative. George H Bush appointed him in 1989. I didn't know Republicans appointed liberal judges.
 
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heliopolissolutions

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I guess we can buy up all the protest signs and artfully change the 'gay' in them to 'gun'.

Love the glitter on the 'gay rights are human rights' pickets, now all we need is some protesters.

As the local Pink Pistols chapter leader, I know that there are plenty of lgbt folks who are sticking up for us UOCers.
 

Ca Patriot

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The recent ruling left me confused. I guess this means now that a person in America has the right to marry one or more people (polygamy). In addition, I guess it means an adult can marry a minor.

Equal rights. Right ?
 

Chrisc411

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The recent ruling left me confused. I guess this means now that a person in America has the right to marry one or more people (polygamy). In addition, I guess it means an adult can marry a minor.

Equal rights. Right ?

Actually in cases with extenuating circumstances a adult can marry and minor, (if i remember right) even worse the legal age in Hawaii used to be 14 (if i remember right)
 
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