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Thread: Identifying and NOT supporting anti-OC businesses.

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    Identifying and NOT supporting anti-OC businesses.

    I think we all would agree not to support (do business with) anti- OC businesses.

    The question I have is what if it's a gunshop, gunsmith, or gun forum?

    I know my answer what is yours?

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    Some would argue that property rights precede all others.

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    the question has nothing to do with property rights.

    I guess it would depend on your resolve to support what you believe in. Personal i have already discontinued doing business with one "unfriendly to Guns" establishment. But as for every place thats simular, i will take it on a case by case basis.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRM59 View Post
    the question has nothing to do with property rights.
    Now there's an obtuse point!

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    Specifics

    I will try to be more specific.

    I'm asking about businesses that revolve around selling and or providing gun related services.

    I am also not talking about being on their property either.

    It's companies that will happily take our money for gun related purchases that turn around bash all things OC related that I am talking about.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Now there's an obtuse point!
    I agree with him. The question has nothing to do with property rights. Yes, you have the right to deny me access to your property if I refuse to abide by your rules. However, I also have the right to refuse your service should I not like those rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    I think we all would agree not to support (do business with) anti- OC businesses.

    The question I have is what if it's a gunshop, gunsmith, or gun forum?

    I know my answer what is yours?
    If you know any address of a business that does not support our rights add them to this search engine. as well as those who do. The more members here add to this the more detailed the map becomes for gun owners.

    http://www.friendorfoe.us/

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    I know a lot of businesses who are anti-gun, anti-OC... but none of them are gun shops.

    Personally, if a gun shop did not want me to carry my gun at their shop I would go to another one. It isn't like they are hard to find..?

    Seems silly though, right?

    That's like a mechanic who doesn't want you to drive to his shop, or a cigar bar that doesn't allow smoking...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    I agree with him. The question has nothing to do with property rights. Yes, you have the right to deny me access to your property if I refuse to abide by your rules. However, I also have the right to refuse your service should I not like those rules.
    I agree with you on ALL counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    I know a lot of businesses who are anti-gun, anti-OC... but none of them are gun shops.

    Personally, if a gun shop did not want me to carry my gun at their shop I would go to another one. It isn't like they are hard to find..?

    Seems silly though, right?

    That's like a mechanic who doesn't want you to drive to his shop, or a cigar bar that doesn't allow smoking...
    There are two gun shops in the Birmingham area that don't allow loaded carry. I don't remember their names because I have been their once.

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    There are a few gun stores around my area that don't allow carry of loaded guns when shopping. I tend to not visit those stores on purpose.

    One store in particular that surprised me is Blackhawk Headquarters in Norfolk, VA. I went to their showroom one day and was immediately asked if I was LEO. When I responded "no" they then asked if my gun was loaded. Since it was I laughed and told them at which the person working (a woman) asked me to take my gun out to my car and unload it.

    Since this showroom is inside their headquarters on the first floor, I can kind of understand why they wouldn't want an negligent discharge since office space is around the store but since they sell gun equipment I was surprised. The woman told me that they don't allow loaded weapons (except LEO) since people like to try out holsters. I suggested a sign stating "Please do not unholster loaded weapons!" rather than forcing people to unload.

    Now since it is Blackhawk I know they aren't "anti" but didn't like their policy at their HQ showroom/store. I sent a letter to the CEO asking for clarification and review of their policy. Regardless of the answer I don't plan to boycott their products but at least wanted them to review their policy. If they continue to disallow OC in their store I will simply shop online or at other stores.

    Others have noted that because of available venue's most gun shows require unloading weapons. I don't boycott gun shows because I know it is the convention center rules rather than the vendors.
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 08-05-2010 at 06:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    I suggested a sign stating "Please do not unholster loaded weapons!" rather than forcing people to unload.
    Most gun shops around here have a similar policy... keep it holstered

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    there is only one shop in my area that has a "no loaded firearms allowed" sign on the door. i've only been there a handful of times and that was only to buy primers during the "big scare" since no other shop had any.

    i will avoid anti-carry and anti-gun businesses as much as possible but when they are the only place to get something you need, a choice has to be made.
    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    I try not to go to one gun store located on " 2nd Amendment Drive", which must not be as passionate as they try to look like. They are ok if you CC, but the owner doesn't like OC, even though the employees and himself OC in the store. They might want to change their name to something with " Brady" in it, since the anti OC reasons are as rediculous and full of illogic as Paul Helmke's rants. And rename the road " Part of the 2nd Amendment Drive"

    A gun store that dislikes customer OC is like a trapping supplier disliking trappers wearing fur hats into their store.

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    Each situation is different. If it was the only shop within a reasonable distance, I might put up with it, while gently working to change their mind at every opportunity.

    If there were other shops, competitive, within range, I might spend more time and money at the shops that did not refuse OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    I think we all would agree not to support (do business with) anti- OC businesses.

    The question I have is what if it's a gunshop, gunsmith, or gun forum?

    I know my answer what is yours?
    In shops if they want safety to not be an issue, then you simply should not argue the point; their staff might actually be armed after all. This is a very simple DUH moment and can usually be resolved by talking to management/ownership and asking the questions, you'll get an applicable answer. From what I'm reading, you didn't ask the questions and if you did you failed to post up the questions you asked and the responses which means you're trying to start an issue when none exists. If their reasoning is safety due to trades and sales, then respect that reason and don't be a jerk about it and claim their anti-gun. As for a gun forum that does not agree to support OC you likely will not find an entire forum (as in its usership) that does not agree with OC. You will have folks that stand on either side and some that feel there is a time and place for both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Some would argue that property rights precede all others.
    Do they? If so, then you as a private property owner are obligated to protect me (liable for any injuries) while I'm on your property and your insurance company as well as the courts say that is fact and is the reason we must carry property liability insurance. Granted, I'm taking it a bit far as you can see, but it's an approach to clearly illustrate that where the gap exists the individual must be allowed to fill in that if the property owner is not liable for injuries or required to protect the individual from a BG or crime occuring on their property that impacts me and LEOs simply cannot and will not fill that void, then you and I (the individual) must be allowed to take the necessary steps to preserve and protect our own life as well as the lives of our loved ones or companions. I hope that made sense and wasn't clear as mud.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 08-09-2010 at 01:57 PM.

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    I did my part

    Updated Friendorfoe.us with Movie Tavern in Williamsburg as being a FOE
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Well the store I refer to has a new competitor who ENCOURAGES customer OC. I went up there last week and OC'd. The new guy doesn't have the huge selection of everything the other place has, and doesn't have a big indoor range like the other place has, but he is expanding, and can get whatever you want, and will do reasonably priced transfers for online purchases. He wants to get a small space just over the line in MD also, for transfers for the MD people.

    I first met him at the OC dinner that I set up in southern York county PA. Oh and he asked if he could fiddle around with some .50 BMG reloads on my parent's land LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40coyote View Post
    Well the store I refer to has a new competitor who ENCOURAGES customer OC. I went up there last week and OC'd. The new guy doesn't have the huge selection of everything the other place has, and doesn't have a big indoor range like the other place has, but he is expanding, and can get whatever you want, and will do reasonably priced transfers for online purchases. He wants to get a small space just over the line in MD also, for transfers for the MD people.

    I first met him at the OC dinner that I set up in southern York county PA. Oh and he asked if he could fiddle around with some .50 BMG reloads on my parent's land LOL.

    Did you inquire as to the reasons with the other facility yet? You may have answered your own question with the information that they have an indoor range. Might totally be a safety thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    Might totally be a safety thing.
    This seems disingenuous to me. If it is a "safety thing" then they should say why. Making blanket policy that prohibits carry hurts the 2A rights movement, making anti-OC policy divides the movement.

    Safety is always a trade-off, many would argue that lawful carry makes things safer, not more dangerous.

    "Do not unholster loaded firearms" is a rule I can respect, but if you're already following the big three (or four), it is unnecessary.
    Last edited by architect; 08-12-2010 at 01:07 PM.

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    Sharpshooters in VA you have to be unloaded coming in and out. As soon as I get there unload put magazine in holster go in shoot have one mag ready for when I get in car and reload.

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    did some looking

    after this post was started i did some looking around out of curiosity, and i have ventured to every gun shop and range in my area.
    all the gun shops/stores have an unloaded policy. and even the indoor range, gun must be unloaded, and slide locked back, or in a carry case unloaded.
    but on the other hand i have OCed at Dicks Sporting good,Peppers,and Bull Frog gardens. with no problems. Just found it all interesting.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Many of these places will have such a policy posted, yet tolerate holster carry. (Especially if it is obvious you carry often.)

    They have very good reasons to post these policies.

    Remember many people at an indoor range you see, don't carry daily, and/or don't shoot often. These people are definitely high risk in my book. So much so I no longer go to indoor ranges unless it is for an IDPA or other shoot.

    People who carry daily are generally low on my radar.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    There are a few gun stores around my area that don't allow carry of loaded guns when shopping. I tend to not visit those stores on purpose.

    One store in particular that surprised me is Blackhawk Headquarters in Norfolk, VA. I went to their showroom one day and was immediately asked if I was LEO. When I responded "no" they then asked if my gun was loaded. Since it was I laughed and told them at which the person working (a woman) asked me to take my gun out to my car and unload it.

    Since this showroom is inside their headquarters on the first floor, I can kind of understand why they wouldn't want an negligent discharge since office space is around the store but since they sell gun equipment I was surprised. The woman told me that they don't allow loaded weapons (except LEO) since people like to try out holsters. I suggested a sign stating "Please do not unholster loaded weapons!" rather than forcing people to unload.

    Now since it is Blackhawk I know they aren't "anti" but didn't like their policy at their HQ showroom/store. I sent a letter to the CEO asking for clarification and review of their policy. Regardless of the answer I don't plan to boycott their products but at least wanted them to review their policy. If they continue to disallow OC in their store I will simply shop online or at other stores.

    Others have noted that because of available venue's most gun shows require unloading weapons. I don't boycott gun shows because I know it is the convention center rules rather than the vendors.

    That LEO only carry thing has always bothered me. I'm not trying to bash, but I know more than a few and I get more range time than them. My father to this day has his nose out of joint over a State Trooper who used to coon hunt with him and several friends, he would carry while hunting. My father and the others could run the dogs out of season but were not allowed to carry a firearm(State regs.). When my father commented about his sidearm, the Trooper said he was required to carry at all times. I have talked to other LEO's I am acquainted with and they have said they generally always carry but are not required to. I guess my main problem is the universal assumption that just because you're a LEO 1) You're more capible or more gun safe and 2) You have to carry everywhere.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavageOne View Post
    2) You have to carry everywhere.
    Depending on where I worked and the type of scum I had to deal with, I'd probably feel like I had to carry everywhere too if I were a cop.

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