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Thread: Why you should always have a round in the chamber

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    Why you should always have a round in the chamber

    Lopez reportedly told police he saw several Hispanic males walk past him throwing gang signs for about 20 minutes before two of them walked up to him and lifted their shirts to reveal pistols, documents said.

    David Reyes allegedly told Lopez that he and the others with him were south side gang members, and that he believed Lopez was a former north side gang member.

    Lopez told Reyes he didn't want any problems, and a short time later Reyes allegedly jumped Lopez from behind, documents said.

    Reyes and several others started punching Lopez, who had a pistol and pulled it out to use in self-defense but there was no bullet in the chamber, documents said.

    Reyes also had a gun and reportedly fired several times at Lopez. Lopez managed to load his pistol and fired at Reyes, hitting him twice. Reyes and the others then fled, documents said.
    Seven of the hoodrats got caught.

    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2010/0...-believed.html

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    A gun without a round chambered is for all practical purposes, Unloaded.

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    a gun without a round chambered is as much use as a brick... or maybe, in a pinch, a hammer?

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I have heard of people carrying this way, unloaded. One person told me that they can rack the slide back pretty quick. I think that these people do not realize how quickly SHTF. You usually will, if your lucky, only have enough time to draw your sidearm, and hopefully get a shot off. Throw in one more move and you are in big trouble, since, you are usually in the hole when it comes to time already.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Sounds like more of an argument to leave the area when a known threat is around. Why didn’t the guy just leave after being confronted or call the police. Sounds to me like he was trying to be a tough guy or maybe looking for confrontation.

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=NavyLT;1324119] Why should a person leave a place they have every right to be at simply because there are criminals there?QUOTE]

    Either call the authorities or walk away, that is the responsible thing to do especially if there are other innocent people around. It doesn’t make sense to stick around to prove a point when you or someone else couldn’t be harmed as a result.

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    [QUOTE=bennie1986;1324132]
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Why should a person leave a place they have every right to be at simply because there are criminals there?QUOTE]

    Either call the authorities or walk away, that is the responsible thing to do especially if there are other innocent people around. It doesn’t make sense to stick around to prove a point when you or someone else couldn’t be harmed as a result.
    With an attitude like that you should probably stay home on the porch. Refusing to be intimidated is the American way. I will not let them take over my area period.
    You shouldn't go out on the streets because there are cars out there and they run into each other and everything else. Call the authorities and tell them what. "There are some bad guys over here and they have guns" While you are talking on the phone you get shot in the back by the gang members.
    By the way gang members rarely to never call the police, in case you didn't know.
    Each situation is unique, try to learn from it. A man can not just run and hide, wait for the police, every time he is challenged. Where would the world be if everyone followed your advice? The bad guys win.......not on my watch.
    This post is not meant to be a personal attack, just a right wing comment on a left wing post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    I have heard of people carrying this way, unloaded. One person told me that they can rack the slide back pretty quick. I think that these people do not realize how quickly SHTF. You usually will, if your lucky, only have enough time to draw your sidearm, and hopefully get a shot off. Throw in one more move and you are in big trouble, since, you are usually in the hole when it comes to time already.
    Racking the slide to chamber a round doesn't take much more time than clicking off a safety or cocking back a hammer...

    The real problem comes with inexperience... as in this case.

    The fact that he forgot to chamber a round is what makes this dangerous. Drawing an unloaded pistol is like picking up a rock. If you are in that kind of a situation... which is any situation warranting your gun to be drawn from its holster... are you experienced enough, trained well enough, to remember to chamber that first round?

    This guy was getting shot at, tried to return fire but could not... how many bullets missed him because of poor aim while he remembered to and then did chamber the first round?

    Luck runs out faster than bullets...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=dan10mmman;1324222]
    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post

    With an attitude like that you should probably stay home on the porch.

    They should probably stay away from their porch to; just ask the family of the girl in Tacoma (I think it was Tacoma) who's daughter was shot standing out on her porch.

    Nowhere is safe anymore, if there ever was a safe place. If I am being confronted by a group of people, the last thing I am doing is turning around and walking away, talk about dangerous, since, I would have gathered they think I am part of some gang; good way to be shot in the back.

    That is why I love Washington state--stand your ground. Fleeing is always an option, as long as you are sure they aren't going to jump you from the back or shoot you in the back. I would personally back away, and attempt to take cover, if that was possible, it reads like it wasn't and option.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 08-05-2010 at 03:58 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    Racking the slide to chamber a round doesn't take much more time than clicking off a safety or cocking back a hammer...

    I am not sure how you carry your sidearm (semi-auto), but for me, it would take more time to draw and rack the slide back than it would for me to just draw and pull the trigger. Even drawing, flipping the safety off then pulling the trigger would be faster than racking a slide back.

    We should meet at the range sometime to test this theory of yours. I have a 92FS, we could get someone with a 1911, and then you have an unloaded sidearm; we can see if it is just as fast. I bet it isn't. I would lose out to the 1911 on the safety.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=dan10mmman;1324222]
    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post

    With an attitude like that you should probably stay home on the porch. Refusing to be intimidated is the American way. I will not let them take over my area period.
    You shouldn't go out on the streets because there are cars out there and they run into each other and everything else. Call the authorities and tell them what. "There are some bad guys over here and they have guns" While you are talking on the phone you get shot in the back by the gang members.
    By the way gang members rarely to never call the police, in case you didn't know.
    Each situation is unique, try to learn from it. A man can not just run and hide, wait for the police, every time he is challenged. Where would the world be if everyone followed your advice? The bad guys win.......not on my watch.
    This post is not meant to be a personal attack, just a right wing comment on a left wing post.
    So would your actions be the same if you were unarmed?

    Sounds like a personl attack to me! Calling it a left wing post! Please let me know how I should see that other that an insult!
    Last edited by bennie1986; 08-05-2010 at 04:16 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=bennie1986;1324244]
    Quote Originally Posted by dan10mmman View Post

    So would your actions be the same if you were unarmed?
    Being armed and being unarmed are two completely different situations, because there are different options at your disposal.

    I have seen that question asked so many times. Comparing being armed and not being armed is comparing apples to oranges. If you were unarmed you would have no other option but to flee. If you were armed you would have the option to not engage in a dangerous reaction such as turning around and running away.

    Obviously we are all assuming what we would do in a situation like the one outlined at the beginning of this thread. Drawing your sidearm and pulling the trigger should be a last resort; now for the fun part, determining whether or not in that moment you are at the last resort. We must all remember there are bad decisions all around when determining whether or not to draw or flee. You could flee but it comes at a cost, just like drawing your sidearm; both of the run the risk of you either being dead or locked up for a number of years.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    From my understanding of the article the guy was confronted then jumped a short time later. Sounds to me like there would have been an opportunity to distance himself from the situation or at least prepare for the attack. Comparing unarmed to armed reaction is completely relevant! If you are putting yourself in situations that may be risky just because you have a gun is stupid. I will not give an overzealous prosecutor any ammo (no pun intended) to file criminal charges on me for defending myself. You have to know they will question if there was another way the situation could have been resolved. I agree that he had the right to stand his ground. My point is that I don’t think that is the smartest move.
    Last edited by bennie1986; 08-05-2010 at 04:39 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    From my understanding of the article the guy was confronted then jumped a short time later. Sounds to me like there would have been an opportunity to distance himself from the situation or at least prepare for the attack. Comparing unarmed to armed reaction is completely relevant! If you are putting yourself in situations that may be risky just because you have a gun is stupid. I will not give an overzealous prosecutor any ammo (no pun intended) to file criminal charges on me for defending myself. You have to know they will question if there was another way the situation could have been resolved. I agree that he had the right to stand his ground. My point is that I don’t think that is the smartest move.
    Walking down the street, minding your own business, and being confronted by a group of thugs is not putting yourself in a situation; it is a situation being imposed on you. "A short time later," seconds, minutes, hours?

    Prosecutor, "Why were you walking down the street?"

    Defendant, "I like going for walks"

    What other explanation is needed as to why they are walking down the street.

    So when is it not OK to be a law-abiding citizen walking down the street minding your own business? I don't drive my car to a crappy neighborhood to go for a midnight stroll, but am I bringing it onto my self if my partner and I go for a walk in the evening around our neighborhood? Since when do the streets suddenly become the sole stomping ground of thugs in the evening. You give up the streets to thugs in after 8 pm, they will eventually expect you to give them up at 6 pm, then 4 pm...where does a law-abiding citizen draw the line?
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 08-05-2010 at 05:03 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Walking down the street, minding your own business, and being confronted by a group of thugs is not putting yourself in a situation; it is a situation being imposed on you. "A short time later," seconds, minutes, hours?

    Prosecutor, "Why were you walking down the street?"

    Defendant, "I like going for walks"

    What other explanation is needed as to why they are walking down the street.

    So when is it not OK to be a law-abiding citizen walking down the street minding your own business? I don't drive my car to a crappy neighborhood to go for a midnight stroll, but am I bringing it onto my self if my partner and I go for a walk in the evening around our neighborhood? Since when do the streets suddenly become the sole stomping ground of thugs in the evening. You give up the streets to thugs in after 8 pm, they will eventually expect you to give them up at 6 pm, then 4 pm...where does a law-abiding citizen draw the line?
    +1

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Walking down the street, minding your own business, and being confronted by a group of thugs is not putting yourself in a situation; it is a situation being imposed on you. "A short time later," seconds, minutes, hours?

    Prosecutor, "Why were you walking down the street?"

    Defendant, "I like going for walks"

    What other explanation is needed as to why they are walking down the street.

    So when is it not OK to be a law-abiding citizen walking down the street minding your own business? I don't drive my car to a crappy neighborhood to go for a midnight stroll, but am I bringing it onto my self if my partner and I go for a walk in the evening around our neighborhood? Since when do the streets suddenly become the sole stomping ground of thugs in the evening. You give up the streets to thugs in after 8 pm, they will eventually expect you to give them up at 6 pm, then 4 pm...where does a law-abiding citizen draw the line?
    No Stop! You are trying to take what I was saying about this particular situation and apply it to another! That’s not what I am saying at all!!!! For the story that this thread was started for my position was clearly stated… It sounds to me that he had an opportunity to deescalate the situation by retreating upon realizing a potential threat. I’m not sure why when they originally shown their weapons he didn’t draw then, my guess is he probably wasn’t carrying legally but that really not the point I’m debating. Your right we don’t know what exactly is meant by a short time later but I’m guessing the story would have been written differently if they went just started attacking him. I mean how did they have time to get behind him if he didn’t have some time to retreat? I’m guessing because it was a surprise attack from behind enough time had passed that he let his guard down. I personally wouldn’t have ever let my guard down enough for them to get behind me and I’m sure thats the case for you as well.

    I agree with your scenario 110%
    Last edited by bennie1986; 08-05-2010 at 05:15 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    The seven are alleged to be gang members who assaulted and shot at Ronnie Lopez, who was attending a barbecue in the west end of the park, court documents said.
    Lopez reportedly told police he saw several Hispanic males walk past him throwing gang signs for about 20 minutes before two of them walked up to him and lifted their shirts to reveal pistols, documents said.
    David Reyes allegedly told Lopez that he and the others with him were south side gang members, and that he believed Lopez was a former north side gang member.
    Lopez told Reyes he didn't want any problems, and a short time later Reyes allegedly jumped Lopez from behind, documents said.
    Reyes and several others started punching Lopez, who had a pistol and pulled it out to use in self-defense but there was no bullet in the chamber, documents said.
    Reyes also had a gun and reportedly fired several times at Lopez. Lopez managed to load his pistol and fired at Reyes, hitting him twice. Reyes and the others then fled, documents said.
    Reyes was treated for gunshot wounds at Kadlec Regional Medical Center after being stopped by police in the park.

    Apparently Lopez was at a BBQ, I am guessing with friends and/or family. The thugs had walked by throwing up gang signs. They approached Lopez then a short time later (not specified) Lopez was jumped from the back. I am thinking that either Lopez was walking away when confronted by the thugs or they walked by him then turned around and approached him from the back.

    The problem with news articles are that they always lack information and are typically bias against the person who shot in self-defense. Lopez was shot. If Lopez was carrying illegally I almost guarantee that the paper would have pointed that important piece of information out.

    People need to think when approached by thugs or any other type of person that is obviously targeting you. Personally I keep my eye on the person, they might interpret it as m looking for trouble, but so be it. I am not going to be caught off guard by some thug, especially a group of thugs. The second they (there were a couple of them armed) lifted their shirt I would have drawn and shot; the courts can sort it out from there, they will, you can be sure of that. Especially if I am with my kids and partner at a BBQ. The act of throwing gang signs, approaching you and lifting their shirt to show they are armed indicates an imminent threat of grave bodily harm or death.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 08-05-2010 at 05:32 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  18. #18
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I would recommend that you not come to the Willow Lakes event on 8/15. DEROS72 lives in a pretty bad part of town. He doesn't have a choice. He has to live in a risky situation every day.
    Living in a bad part of town is not the risky situations I am talking about, you cant always help where you live. I’m not sure why you think that is what I am talking about. My point was that you don’t have to go around not backing down from a potentially bad situation just because you have a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    Racking the slide to chamber a round doesn't take much more time than clicking off a safety or cocking back a hammer...
    Not much more time, but twice as many hands

  20. #20
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Apparently Lopez was at a BBQ, I am guessing with friends and/or family. The thugs had walked by throwing up gang signs. They approached Lopez then a short time later (not specified) .
    Yes it was! The article clearly states and I quote “Lopez reportedly told police he saw several Hispanic males walk past him throwing gang signs for about 20 minutes before two of them walked up to him and lifted their shirts to reveal pistols, documents said.” It goes on to say “Lopez told Reyes he didn't want any problems, and a short time later Reyes allegedly jumped Lopez from behind, documents said.”
    Again you right about one thing we don’t know what a short time later means but again one can gather that if they were able to get him from behind enough time must have passed from him to let his guard down.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    My point was that you don’t have to go around not backing down from a potentially bad situation just because you have a gun.
    I agree with you. But that can be and is highly subjective.

    Aeoob (might be misspelled) recommends that you throw a thug who is looking at you for trouble a 5-spot to save yourself 10k in attorneys fees.

    I completely disagree. I should not have to pay a toll to walk down the street. If trouble come knocking on your door you have to evaluate the situation and respond accordingly. You have at best seconds to make a decision and respond. It is amazing how long a police report can get when describing a situation that only lasted a few seconds. A lot of sh*t goes down when SHTF.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
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    There's a reason its called a HANDgun, instead of a HANDSgun. Always chambered, always alert, always ready.

    I carry Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, Kahrs and even a Keltec 380 on occasion. Regardless of the operating system of the firearm, I can ALWAYS get it into action with one hand. If I'm not comfortable with the particular firearm being carried with a round in the chamber, I don't carry it. Simple as that.

    -G20

  23. #23
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    Yes it was! The article clearly states and I quote “Lopez reportedly told police he saw several Hispanic males walk past him throwing gang signs for about 20 minutes before two of them walked up to him and lifted their shirts to reveal pistols, documents said.” It goes on to say “Lopez told Reyes he didn't want any problems, and a short time later Reyes allegedly jumped Lopez from behind, documents said.”
    Again you right about one thing we don’t know what a short time later means but again one can gather that if they were able to get him from behind enough time must have passed from him to let his guard down.

    OK, so I am at a BBQ with the family. It is a nice sunny day, we are roasting weenies on the grill, the kids are off playing on the jungle-gym. A group of thugs pass by and start throwing up gang signs at me (I have no idea why they would throw up gang signs at me). I yell for the kids to come back to the BBQ, roll up camp and leave?

    Lopez seems like he needs to reevaluate his situational awareness. Personally, once I identify someone as a potential threat, they do not leave my sight.

    Let's say Lopez called the police, I am sure they would have arrived an hour later, only to tell Lopez that there is nothing illegal about throwing gang signs.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  24. #24
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Aeoob (might be misspelled) recommends that you throw a thug who is looking at you for trouble a 5-spot to save yourself 10k in attorneys fees.

    I completely disagree. I should not have to pay a toll to walk down the street. If trouble come knocking on your door you have to evaluate the situation and respond accordingly. You have at best seconds to make a decision and respond. It is amazing how long a police report can get when describing a situation that only lasted a few seconds. A lot of sh*t goes down when SHTF.
    Agree 100%!

  25. #25
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    OK, so I am at a BBQ with the family. It is a nice sunny day, we are roasting weenies on the grill, the kids are off playing on the jungle-gym. A group of thugs pass by and start throwing up gang signs at me (I have no idea why they would throw up gang signs at me). I yell for the kids to come back to the BBQ, roll up camp and leave?

    Lopez seems like he needs to reevaluate his situational awareness. Personally, once I identify someone as a potential threat, they do not leave my sight.

    Let's say Lopez called the police, I am sure they would have arrived an hour later, only to tell Lopez that there is nothing illegal about throwing gang signs.
    If you are responsible for anyone but yourself leaving doesn’t seem like a viable option, I agree. If it were me I would probably be there with my family as well, wife and kids. I would have my wife call the police and report that we feel there may be a possible situation. While she was doing that I would be making sure I was ready to defend my family and myself. Like you I would expect I would draw and fire upon being threatened.

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