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Thread: Only in Boulder moment

  1. #1
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    Only in Boulder moment

    I went to REI's clinic on climbing 14er's last night. Pretty interesting, very informative on preparation and survival, but not too specific on gear. Which was actually nice. I hate when you go to these things and it's just a long sales pitch.

    At one point he put up a slide of a mountain goat and pointed out that they're non-native to the area. He asked the audience if anyone knew why they were introduced. Several people guessed grazing, etc. and he said "Think of a more sporting purpose". Several of us said, "Oh, hunting." There were some murmurs of realization and some sneers, and this poppie* behind me smirks, "I don't think there are any hunters in THIS room, tee hee." I just quietly raised my hand into her field of vision.

    I really wanted to ask her what made her think that. Was it that hunters wouldn't be climbing 14ers? Did you not just hear him say the goats were put there for hunting? How do you think the hunters are getting there? Not only are they taking all the equipment you are, they're also hauling weapons and ammo up and meat out. Don't even get me started on the idea that hunters love the outdoors less than Boulder day-hikers who refuse to camp!

    Another person said, "How sad." How sad what? That a non-native species was introduced? Yeah, I've got issues with that myself. But now it's flourishing as a functional part of the eco-system. So, after it's been introduced, it's sad that the DOW is going to manage it? Or just sad people are hunting such pretty creatures? Did you miss the part that they wouldn't BE there if it weren't for the sporting use?

    The speaker went on, talking about recreation being considered a "resource" by the forest service. I.e. on top of timber etc., recreation is a source of revenue. "Thanks in large part to hunters," I thought.

    He moved on to talk about wag bags (to haul out fecal waste). I asked about water waste. He said it was a good question and pointed out above treeline, everything is salt starved. Pee on the rocks and you make a salt lick for them. Keep it off the tundra plants though, because if the nitrogen doesn't kill them, the sheep, goats, and marmots will tear them apart to get to the salt. Blondita behind me is icking and ewing. I'm thinking, "Yeah, chica, hunters have to pack out their urine, primarily so it doesn't scare the game."

    Dogs were another topic. The speaker said, "No one says, 'I have bad dogs.' I'll say it. I have bad dogs. That's why they don't hike with me." He was talking about the impact of 100 dogs with half of them being off-leash and under questionable voice command getting into pack mentality. He said there are "pretty much no gun laws up there, except the state laws" however livestock and wildlife are protected from out of control dogs. "Your dog could be shot for being out of control with no repurcussions to the shooter. It's a safety issue for your dog and the animals."

    I was waiting for a similar reaction to the hunting statement, but you could hear a pin drop. I couldn't read the room. It did seem that a few people were trying to figure out which cute furry creature to root for.

    I had a couple of follow up questions after the presentation. As serendipity would have it, chica was behind me in line. At least she had a nice smile. Firstly, I wanted to ask him about what organization he was talking about. He kept referring to taking volunteers to do trail maintenance. I figured if I can get paid in good karma and get a guide to give me some training, bring it on. He also made a reference to getting in legal trouble for picking tundra flora in Wilderness areas. I thought that was interesting as woodcutting by hand and hunting are allowed.

    We discussed it for a couple of minutes and I found it interesting that you can't even use wheelbarrows the regs are so strict. Mainly, for the benefit of whatshername I added, "I'll double check the regs. I've hunted in those areas and I've backpacked and cut wood in them."

    *"Poppie" is a SouthAfricanism with no good American translation. The quintessential poppie is in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly0r59GyUjo

    I was actually thrilled to be able to see the quintessential Boulder poppie.

  2. #2
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    Poppie!

    I like that term. I'll have to see a few more examples, but after that I'd like to see it catch on...

    BTW: It seems that the instructor was pretty cool about it all. I wonder what all the neo-hippies would do if hunting was banned. I'm not a hunter (I'd like to some day, but I need a good rifle first), but even I can see the reason for hunting. Aside from keeping dangerous encounters to a minimum it also keeps our wild areas in sync and avoids starving and sick animals becoming common. Why do all of these tree huggers think that hunting is an evil, archaic practice that isn't necessary?

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Something tells me you weren't OC'ing at this gathering.

    This makes me cry just a little inside.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 08-06-2010 at 08:17 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Something tells me you weren't OC'ing at this gathering.
    I was still in my running clothes. Until I get a decent belly band, I carry pepper spray when I run. Saw those shoulder holster tshirts at Sportsman's, but I didn't like them for $50. We'll see what Tanner has tomorrow.

    I'd just done 3 miles. Actually felt bad for the guy sitting next to me. But I'm sure I shattered her image of hunters as belly swollen gruffy rednecks. Cute though. Would have hit on her if I didn't reek and she didn't irritate me so much. Not that I could stand her to get through an actual conversation.
    Last edited by mahkagari; 08-06-2010 at 11:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Cute though. Would have hit on her if I didn't reek and she didn't irritate me so much. Not that I could stand her to get through an actual conversation.
    You would actually be quite surprised what calm rational discussion can do. My exwife was a Bill Clinton volunteir when we met. Now she is a libertarian. The same for my wife now. She thought she was a socialist until I pointed out that her wanting to open a small business was about the most capitalistic thing in the world. She was also extremely anti-gun. She too is now an avid libertarian and wants a shotgun to hang above the bedroom door.

    Asking questions and making a person think and explore their ideals is the best way for me to make people see the error of their ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    BTW: It seems that the instructor was pretty cool about it all. I wonder what all the neo-hippies would do if hunting was banned. I'm not a hunter (I'd like to some day, but I need a good rifle first), but even I can see the reason for hunting.
    Yeah, I liked him. He was very much about conservation and preservation with a clear head on his shoulders and had as little tolerance for the hippie-tourists as anyone.

    You don't need a rifle to "hunt". I'm by FAR no expert so this is all IMHO. I don't even like calling my wandering around in the woods with a gun real "hunting". 80% of the time hunting is spent scouting, looking at maps, reading reports, etc., before you even set foot out with a gun. The best advice I've seen is to go antler hunting while geocaching. You learn about the animals patterns and it just gets you out. Get that practice and practical knowledge down so that when you go out with an actual weapon and tag, you KNOW where you're going to make your harvest. Some of the best "hunters" are actually photographers. Having a good rifle doesn't put the animal anywhere you can shoot them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Asking questions and making a person think and explore their ideals is the best way for me to make people see the error of their ways.
    Yeah, that's why I figured just by presenting myself as the opposite of every hunter stereotype that would enter her pretty little head was the best course than confronting her directly. Wasn't interested in doing more to get her to see the error of her ways than that. It wasn't her views that made me not want to engage her directly. It was her being, well, a poppie (seriously, there is just no other word!). Even people like that who are ON my side, I can't stand to hear what's rolling around in their airheads. I just want to say, "Shhh! You're NOT helping!"
    Last edited by mahkagari; 08-06-2010 at 12:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    80% of the time hunting is spent scouting, looking at maps, reading reports, etc., before you even set foot out with a gun. The best advice I've seen is to go antler hunting while geocaching. You learn about the animals patterns and it just gets you out. Get that practice and practical knowledge down so that when you go out with an actual weapon and tag, you KNOW where you're going to make your harvest. Some of the best "hunters" are actually photographers. Having a good rifle doesn't put the animal anywhere you can shoot them.
    Here is an awesome article on scouting/map reading. If you've never hunted, I *highly* reccomend you work on these skills. IMO, it's better to spend a couple of years reading maps and learning to scout before you spend money on hunter safety course, tags, guns, range time, and ammo, only to come home empty handed.

    http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...UScoutTips.htm

    Other articles in the series are at:

    http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...ty/EHULessons/
    Last edited by mahkagari; 08-09-2010 at 04:05 PM.

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    Thanks for the info Mahkagari. If I do decide to go through with the course and the permits and everything, I'll be going with a few friends and family members that hunt all the time. My main reason for hunting would be to supply extra meat and would probably hunt rabbits more often than not. But, thanks again, maybe if I get good enough at processing the information I could probably go up on my own and would be able to enjoy it more because I wouldn't be following people around.

    For the record, I have a Savage Model 99 (chambered in the original .300 Savage) that I can use and has been in the family for around 55 years; I'll just have to zero the scope.

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    I never, never, never get tired of pointing out that hunters give more food to homeless shelters than all liberal organizations combined! Hunters spend more money only habitat protection than Sierra Club, Greenpeace, and all others.

    But, you know Boulder...they'd rather be eaten by mountain lions than hunt them.

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