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Thread: Do You Like My New T-Shirt?

  1. #1
    TWG2A
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    Do You Like My New T-Shirt?

    I won this T-Shirt in a contest about the history of the Knights Templar!
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  2. #2
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Thumbs down No.

    • The crusades aren't something to be proud of.
    • Christians and Jews aren't Infidels.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Thumbs down No christian or otherwise should be proud of the crusades

    Wow, I'm not even sure how to respond to this one. I don't know which is worse. The fact that your wearing a t shirt that by it's very nature is designed to be offensive (thanks for helping us win the hearts and minds by the way), or the fact that you know so little about the carnage and long lasting consequences of the crusades to the relations of both the the Greek Orthodox Church, The RCC , and the Islamic world that you would try to imply the crusades were a good thing. Jews, Muslims, and Christians all suffered purges, rapes, pillaging, and murder on all sides. To be more vivvid for you: picture entire cities being burned to the ground and extermination of entire populaces. Extremists have already tried to portray Americans as crusaders that want to dominate Islam and it's crap like this that helps them gain recruits. I'll bet they'll put you on the cover of their recruiting phamplets.

    I'll gladly give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don't realize what your saying by wearing such a t shirt and assume your not just trying to gain attention. I just hope this topic doesn't scare off supportive members who may very happen to be muslim. Muslims tend to react the same to the word Crusade as we do when we hear the word Jihad. I doubt you'd be too keen on someone walking around with shirt that implied support for Jihad.

    I strongly urge that admin to remove this photos before we lose any members that would otherwise have supported this open carry.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbitone View Post
    Untrue, the crusades advanced may sciences in Europe extremely fast. Such as Medicine and Nutrition.
    Which were promptly declared as "heretical" by Rome in the later part of the crusades, and completely outlawed during the Inquisition as being "tools of the devil"...

    The crusades ALSO gave us the delightfully evil concept of Central Banking, Fractional Reserve Banking, Compounded Interest, and legalized Usury.

    The crusades also brought the wonderful practice of child combatants to the West.

    And lets not forget the enlightened practice of torching Islamic libraries and universities.

    Institutionalize racism, official government-backed anti-Semitism, rape and pillage as officially sanctioned policy, kidnapping and sex-slave trafficking, historical revisionism, and scientifically-designed large-scale propaganda are all some of the profound by-products of the Crusades.

    About the only thing good to come out of the Crusades is it gave the Church an "external enemy" to focus on and persecute after the establishment of the Pax Romana in Europe for about 300 years, rather than continuing to kill, rape, rob, and pillage the indigenous tribes of northern and Western Europe and the British Isles.

    It wasn't until the Church had given up on trying to hold Jerusalem in the late 1200s/early 1300s that Rome started to turn it's paranoia and hatred of "commoners" back inward upon it's own empire, and started burning, torturing, and stealing the property of "witches". If it hadn't been for the distraction of the Crusades, there might have been three or four times as many women and children killed in the name of "witch hunts"...

    Yeah, the Crusades were a real shining example of "Intellectual Advancement"...

    And besides, the Templars weren't "Infidels". They were "believers", just not Muslims. To the Muslims, the Templars were fellow believers--they just happened to be geopolitical enemies.

    However, the Templars WERE perhaps the most evil group in the socio-economic history of the West, because they established the first central banks, standardized the practice of fractional reserve banking, and somehow managed to convince Rome that Usery was acceptable. They were the "prototype" for modern economic blood-suckers like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase.
    Last edited by Dreamer; 08-06-2010 at 04:19 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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  5. #5
    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    Well, everyone here seemed to cover this quite well.

    I'd suggest finding a new shirt.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
    -- Charles A. Beard
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    Quote Originally Posted by flagellum View Post
    Well, everyone here seemed to cover this quite well.

    I'd suggest finding a new shirt.
    Like this
    http://www.opsgear.com/index/page/pr...T-Shirt+-+Dust

  7. #7
    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I think I am going to buy one of these now.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
    -- Charles A. Beard
    XD(m) 9mm

  8. #8
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Wow, everyone is so ssssensitive. I think the shirt looks pretty cool. I find Templar history fascinating. Of course, it doesn't hurt that the one wearing it is easy on the eyes.

    I say keep rocking it. Anyone gets offended, oh well. I think it's pretty obvious the point of the shirt is to give a giant middle finger to muslim extremists. That's right Holder let's say it together, "MUSLIM EXTREMISTS". And honestly I say anything that offends those asshats is ok in my book.

  9. #9
    Regular Member DollarBill's Avatar
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    I love it. And Christians and Jews are considered Infidels by those who ascribe to Islam. Seeing that no Christian or Jew is about seeking to overthrow the US in the name of religion I too am proud to wear the same moniker.

    I also know a young Special Forces soldier whom when off duty wears an Infidel cap with the word written in Arabic only.

    Quit getting all wadded up over stupid stuff like what somebody chooses to wear on a t-shirt. Shoot there's more offensive stuff than that available. Don't think so just go to a Walmart any Saturday, and look at all of the tees being worn by the shoppers. You'll blush.

    I know I don't have many posts but my post count isn't why I'm here. So darlin, you just keep wearin your shirt and these others can wear something else.

    Shoot send it to me, it'll go over well here close to Fort Leonard Wood. And I'll wear it to Wally world on Saturday and make lotsa friends...

    Later haters
    $Bill

  10. #10
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    You ******* idiot

    Christians and jews are "people of the book" in islam and are not infidels.

    When you wear something like this, it only insults real Muslims.

    Extremest already hate you so it doesn't mean **** to them.

    Wearing this shows a fundamental lack of what Islam is.
    Notice I only say "Extremest". That is because they only give pathetic lip
    service to Islam while violating half its principles. They are not
    worthy of being defined by their "religion."

    In America we don't define white suprimacy/KKK groups as "Christian Extremest."
    even though some use religion to justify racism.

    In Islam it is perfectly acceptable for Christians to eat pork and drink wine. This was even the case during the time of 'Sharia' law. (which is past) It is even acceptable for Muslims to eat pork or liquor if it is an ingredient in food that is gifted to them from a Christian.

    Even moreso, many "Infidels" are actually protected groups in real Islam. Nomadic and semi-nomadic peoples (such as Bedouin, American Indian, Gypsy, Aboriginies) are considered self-ruling and sovern, and should be exempted from gov't oversight even when in a countries lands.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-09-2010 at 02:45 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  11. #11
    Regular Member Las Vegan's Avatar
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    It's much too soon to be joking about the Crusades.

    "The right of self-defense never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."
    - President James Monroe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegan View Post
    It's much too soon to be joking about the Crusades.

    You mean like this.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzcLQRXW6B0

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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Actually, that clip reminded me of some of the convos around here!

    BTW, I could swear that the African swallow was migratory. Can you provide a link supporting the assertion that it is not?

  14. #14
    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    Absolutely love it. This is the shirt I just ordered.

    http://www.etsy.com/listing/52808658...irt-size-large

  15. #15
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Christians and jews are "people of the book" in islam and are not infidels.
    Joe,
    All non-Muslims are considered "Infidels" in Muslim countries.
    Craig

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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Joe,
    All non-Muslims are considered "Infidels" in Muslim countries.
    Craig
    Just as important, the ones trying to kill us consider us "infidels." The ones who say we are not infidels aren't doing enough to stop the ones who say we are.

  17. #17
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    I'm a Buddhist with Pagan leanings and a former practicing Witch. It doesn't get much more Infidel than that. I keep reading about Muslim tolerance but am not that impressed.

  18. #18
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Question You do realize...

    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Joe,
    All non-Muslims are considered "Infidels" in Muslim countries.
    Craig
    ...Your explaining Islam to a Muslim right?

    A real Muslim. Not someone who was born in a Muslim country therefor they consider themselves Muslim type of Muslim.
    Half of America that calls themselves Christian are agnostic and almost never attend church.

    Unfortunately your prejudicial exclamations are the same type of made up jibberish spouted off by so-called Sheiks trying to perpetuate ignorance and hate in order to refill their ranks.


    Try this little exercise for me.


    • Know better than you how you should live your life.


    • Want to force these beliefs on you.


    • Ignore individual liberties for the sake of the whole.


    • Use emotional rhetoric to further their goals.


    • Lie incessantly and pervert facts to meet their agenda.


    • Attempt to control the dissemination of information. (aka the media)


    • Feel that you are incapable of deciding for yourself.


    So who am I talking about??
    "Progressive liberals" ... Yes
    Middle Eastern Extremest? ... Yes
    Are they just different iterations of the same sickness? ... Yes

    The West VS Middle East mentality has some benefits for Extremest on both sides:

    • Distracts the populace from domestic issues
    • Creates an atmosphere of fear
    • Gives the populace a general outlet for their fears (the evil 'they')
    • Encourages people to compromise in order to maintain solidarity against that evil 'they'.


    If you think the fight against extremest is a West vs. Middle East thing your missing the other battle.

    Don't be fooled. I'd quote Jefferson again, but his most commonly relevant quote is already in my signature.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-10-2010 at 12:17 AM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  19. #19
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    There is no 'now' to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by VFORVENDETTA View Post
    Now theres taliban, jihadists and terrorists on this forum.
    I've been here *******.
    I've been to numerous OC dinners and events, I've shown my support for our rights by attending Board of Supervisors in many of the surrounding counties. I pass out Opencarry.org and Virginia Citizen Defense League fliers almost every day. I've attended lobby day, and have actually sat in the offices of my Junior and Senior representatives and talked about gun rights with them. I take the effort to make repeated calls to corporate offices attempting to further gun rights and acceptance. I try and help kick-start the Law Library section of the website. I don't just blog, I do.

    You on the other hand can't even bother to read. Anyone who's ever read my posts about Islam with any kind of reading comprehension skills would never call me any of those things.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  20. #20
    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    I'm actually glad to see a Muslim on these boards. The more diverse the better IMHO.

    I'm Mexican-American myself. There seems to be a conservative cliche that Muslims or "illegals"(which has become the generic term for all Mexicans) are the enemy of freedom and that we should resist their Plot to destroy the United States and everything it stands for.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
    -- Charles A. Beard
    XD(m) 9mm

  21. #21
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    No person, belief, or God is above criticism in my opinion. But along with that should come critical thought. I like the OP's shirt because it's a giant FU to our enemy.

    I agree that we could always use more diversity on these boards. Yes, my opinion of Islam is biased. However, my hate for the religion has softened because of American muslims. They agree, the ones Ive' spoken to, that the quickest way to solve the extremist problem is to just kill them because they can't even get their own religion right so talking to them is pointless. But as with all things, if I deem it important at the time I'm more than willing to learn.

    As for the Mexican comment, I have several friends who are Mexican that are far more vocal against illegal immigration than I am. Perhaps when trying to point out the bias of others you shouldn't expose your own without just admitting to it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    ...your explaining islam to a muslim right?

    A real muslim. Not someone who was born in a muslim country therefor they consider themselves muslim type of muslim.
    Half of america that calls themselves christian are agnostic and almost never attend church.

    Unfortunately your prejudicial exclamations are the same type of made up jibberish spouted off by so-called sheiks trying to perpetuate ignorance and hate in order to refill their ranks.


    Try this little exercise for me.


    • know better than you how you should live your life.


    • want to force these beliefs on you.


    • ignore individual liberties for the sake of the whole.


    • use emotional rhetoric to further their goals.


    • lie incessantly and pervert facts to meet their agenda.


    • attempt to control the dissemination of information. (aka the media)


    • feel that you are incapable of deciding for yourself.


    so who am i talking about??
    "progressive liberals" ... Yes
    middle eastern extremest? ... Yes
    are they just different iterations of the same sickness? ... Yes

    the west vs middle east mentality has some benefits for extremest on both sides:

    • distracts the populace from domestic issues
    • creates an atmosphere of fear
    • gives the populace a general outlet for their fears (the evil 'they')
    • encourages people to compromise in order to maintain solidarity against that evil 'they'.


    if you think the fight against extremest is a west vs. Middle east thing your missing the other battle.

    Don't be fooled. I'd quote jefferson again, but his most commonly relevant quote is already in my signature.
    +1
    People need to wake up and realize this, and fast, if there is to be any hope of saving the republic. The "war on terror" the "war on drugs" or whatever other "war" serves as a great excuse to expand the size and power of government.This of course always decreases individual liberty.
    Also you give folks an "enemy" abroad they forget/ignore the enemies right here at home.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by flagellum View Post
    ..."illegals"(which has become the generic term for all Mexicans)...
    "Illegals" is a term for people who are in the country unlawfully, regardless of their country of origin. If you see someone using that term as a pejorative for "all Mexicans," I suggest you point out that behavior (I doubt you will be able to find it here), without casting a wide net over all who use the term.

    It is only right that you should point out such individual bigoted behavior, just as I am pointing out yours.

  24. #24
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    It never ceases to amaze me how much more effort is put into defending Islam by "moderate" Muslims than is put into decrying the horrific actions of the extremIsts. The latter would go a lot further toward reducing Islam-bashing. The former smacks of ignoring the reason (justified or not) that there is so much bashing.

  25. #25
    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    As for the Mexican comment, I have several friends who are Mexican that are far more vocal against illegal immigration than I am. Perhaps when trying to point out the bias of others you shouldn't expose your own without just admitting to it.
    I didn't present any stance on my feelings towards illegal immigration. I said that people are using the immigration issue to attempt to demonize an entire race/ethnicity/national origin. I know there is that one ***** here on here that has the image of a Mexican flag on a toilet paper roll as his profile pic, that's that kind of stuff that I am talking about.
    Last edited by flagellum; 08-10-2010 at 10:20 AM.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
    -- Charles A. Beard
    XD(m) 9mm

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