Clark County Fair OC?

The Clark County Fair is coming up, and I know it is going to be incredibly hot out. I do not CC in this weather! I know there is no STATE law regarding the fairgrounds. It is considered a park. I am trying to find something that says otherwise... I can't seem to find anything. Any help?

Joe~

That ordinance is not legal, right? (nevermind)

Yea, I know what they requested. I wish it was illegal for them to post illegal information at places like that.

No, it is not legal. I have contacted the fairgrounds management and the sheriff. Neither of them are available at the moment. Your google searches must be way better than mine. Lol, I just found some PDF forums with Clark County Park rules, but no codes. Thanks for that.

Joe~

I got a hold of the Sergeant in charge of the Clark County Fair. He told me if I CC, I will be fine. I said the rules say I can't CC or OC. He said CC is fine. I said, I prefer OC. He said he would really like if I didn't do that because it would cause alarm. I asked him if it was legal (and informed him it is according to the RCW). He said, "let me talk to me legal advice, then I will get back to you.

After our conversation, it sounded like he knows it IS legal, but he didn't want to say it. I told him I felt safer with my gun being carried openly and he said he felt safer that way too, but because he has a badge, he doesn't alarm anyone. He said no one knows me, and they may be alarmed when they see my gun. All in all, I think it was a good conversation, but I will still contact the Sheriff tomorrow to talk to him (Since he is an "elected" official, and the elections are coming up).

Joe~

NavyLT said:

With that in mind, look at the definition of coercion in RCW 9A.36.070:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.36.070

Then look at the REVISED definition of a threat in RCW 9A.04.110(27)(a)-(j):
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.04.110

By posting an illegal prohibition of firearms, under the guise of an invalid county ordinance, would you not say that Joe Schmoe is being coerced into refraining from an activity that he has a legal right to engage in under the threat of arrest, detainment, and accusation of committing a crime?

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(d) To accuse any person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against any person; or

(e) To expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule; or

(j) To do any other act which is intended to harm substantially the person threatened or another with respect to his health, safety, business, financial condition, or personal relationships;

I would say it is coercion.

I agree NavyLT. Badges concern me more than citizens. Anytime you give a guy a shiny piece of metal that states he can "enforce the law" and a gun to do so.. that worries me. That's why we are a nation of laws and not a nation of men.

Joe~

FACT
It is illegal to have a firearm at an outdoor music festival. (RCW 70.108.150)

FACT
"...government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds..." are specifically exempt from the restrictions of RCW 70.108.150.

FACT
"Clark County http://www.clarkcoeventcenter.com/about.phphttp://www.clarkcoeventcenter.com/about.phpcontracts with the Fairgrounds Site Management Group to operate and market....The Clark County Event Center at the Fairgrounds." (Edit 7-13-11: the 'about' page has been removed from that website...wonder why?)

FACT
Every individual e-mail contact associated with the administration of the Clark County Fairhas a clark.wa.gov tag.

FACT
The Clark County Events Center at the Fairgrounds is COUNTY OWNED.(edit 7-13-11: new link here. Slightly different URL)

FACT
RCW 9.41.290 prohibits political subdivisions of the state from enacting more restrictive firearms regulations than those enacted by the state (as we already know).

THEREFORE,
Based on the above documented FACTS, since state law neither prohibits, nor allows for any prohibitions on, firearms possession at the Clark County Fair, you are fully within your legal rights to do so.

Period.

Full stop.

End of story.

saw the bit about no guns at outdoor music festivals, and i thought; prohibited because all that fresh air and sunshine might make the gun rust faster, or maybe all those sweating middle aged hippies drippin sweat on the gun? still can't find a valid reason to satisfy my mind yet.

McX said:

saw the bit about no guns at outdoor music festivals, and i thought; prohibited because all that fresh air and sunshine might make the gun rust faster, or maybe all those sweating middle aged hippies drippin sweat on the gun? still can't find a valid reason to satisfy my mind yet.

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Rock and Roll music is from the devil!

We must not submit to the subliminal messages in the music of the 60's!

Phssthpok said:

FACT
It is illegal to have a firearm at an outdoor music festival. (RCW 70.108.150)

FACT
"...government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds..." are specifically exempt from the restrictions of RCW 70.108.150.

FACT
"Clark County http://www.clarkcoeventcenter.com/about.phphttp://www.clarkcoeventcenter.com/about.phpcontracts with the Fairgrounds Site Management Group to operate and market....The Clark County Event Center at the Fairgrounds."

FACT
Every individual e-mail contact associated with the administration of the Clark County Fairhas a clark.wa.gov tag.

FACT
The Clark County Events Center at the Fairgrounds is COUNTY OWNED.

FACT
RCW 9.41.290 prohibits political subdivisions of the state from enacting more restrictive firearms regulations than those enacted by the state (as we already know).

THEREFORE,
Based on the above documented FACTS, since state law neither prohibits, nor allows for any prohibitions on, firearms possession at the Clark County Fair, you are fully within your legal rights to do so.

Period.

Full stop.

End of story.

Click to expand...

Thank you

gogodawgs said:

Rock and Roll music is from the devil!

We must not submit to the subliminal messages in the music of the 60's!

Click to expand...

I always listen to my Barbara Streisand records backwards.

Update:

Sergeant Russel Warren contacted me back today to inform me that he spoke with the fair management. After asking their legal advisers in regards to the open carry of firearms, the Clark County Fair team has said that we can carry concealed but not openly. Russel Warren told me that we would not be arrested for open carry, but we may be asked to leave. If we are asked to leave, then we can be arrested for trespassing. Clark County Fair is an establish private entity that uses public property to have their fairgrounds. It is not a government sponsored fair. After looking into it (and calling the fairgrounds), they do claim to be a private company. It seems they are within the law to deny firearms, but they said they will not do anything if we conceal.

Disappointing, but at least I got a follow through.

Joe~

So you go to the fair. CC through the gate, CC while you enjoy your time at the fair.

And when you are ready to go....
(with recorder on (video or audio))

You take off the shirt and continue enjoying the fair. If the CCSO or anyone asks you to leave.....


just a thought....

I just open carried at the Stanwood-Camano fair for 3 hrs with no problems at all, in front of the sheriff patrols there.

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I always open carry at the Spokane Interstate Fair and have never had a problem. I normally go on the day that is free for military, police and fire. I chatted with the Spokane County Sheriff for a few minutes last year and nothing was said about my OC.

bob

Yeah the events center is county owned but the fair association is private. It's so iffy I won't bother to risk it. I already emailed the county commissioner about it, and I probably won't hear back until Monday.

Joe~

No surprise...

THEY EFFIN' LIED!!!

Clark County Fair is an establish private entity that uses public property to have their fairgrounds. It is not a government sponsored fair. After looking into it (and calling the fairgrounds), they do claim to be a private company. It seems they are within the law to deny firearms, but they said they will not do anything if we conceal.

Click to expand...

FACT:
The Camas/Washougal(??) Chamber of commerce lists the CCFA as a business with an address of...you guessed it..THE CLARK COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS (17402 NE Delfel Rd, Ridgefield, WA 98642 to be exact) and the EXACT same phone number as the COUNTY OWNED fairgrounds.

FACT:
The Executive Director AND the Fair Manager BOTH have .wa.gov email extensions.

A 'private entity' using .gov email to conduct business on government property?? I don't effin' think so!

It may not be 'financially' sponsored by the county but it is most certainly RUN by the county even if they try to hide that fact behind a 'private' enterprise.

These .gov blankety-blanks are REALLY starting to irk me with their disregard for the law that they expect US to obey without question.

minutia...

good research on all of this...it does feel like your getting played...

The little piece of this thread that stuck out to me was the consistent use of "Alarm" as a cause for action by the LEO you spoke with....almost like he was setting the stage for someone to complain to him in an "alarmed state".

That of course is the same language that is in the RCW...but his suggested "Alarm" caused doesn't jive with the intent of the law.....legally carrying, OC'd in its holster, walking around eating popcorn.

intent to intimidate, use of force, illegal display of weapon, etc....

joejoejoe said:

Update:

Sergeant Russel Warren contacted me back today to inform me that he spoke with the fair management. After asking their legal advisers in regards to the open carry of firearms, the Clark County Fair team has said that we can carry concealed but not openly. Russel Warren told me that we would not be arrested for open carry, but we may be asked to leave. If we are asked to leave, then we can be arrested for trespassing. Clark County Fair is an establish private entity that uses public property to have their fairgrounds. It is not a government sponsored fair. After looking into it (and calling the fairgrounds), they do claim to be a private company. It seems they are within the law to deny firearms, but they said they will not do anything if we conceal.

Disappointing, but at least I got a follow through.

Joe~

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Interesting....They claim they won't have you arrested (acknowlegement of no case) but may ask you to leave and may arrest you for treaspass...I'd ask in post script via the FOIA for a copy of the contract between the private and public entity....including the proof of insurance that is usually required by the "renters" in most any of these public venues....that will spell out the truth pretty damn quick, albeit too late.

joejoejoe said:

but because he has a badge, he doesn't alarm anyone.

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So just because he has a badge there's no reason to be alarmed? Wonder how that worked out in Everett where the guy was killed in his car behind the restaurant by someone with a badge. Badge = Safe? Really?

There are probably more guns on the street being carried by law-abiding citizens than by cops. Why aren't they killing more than are killed by cops. Yes, law officers are supposed to engage those causing trouble and the liklihood of shooting is higher. But if you look at the attitude of some, there should be blood running in the streets from all those guns carried by just plain law-abiding citizens.

You might just send a letter to the "Fair" telling them you intend to exercise your 2A rights (as well as Sec 1, Art 24 under State Const.) while attending the fair. That any attempt to deprive you of your rights will result in your taking legal action against the "Fair". Find an Attorney that will represent you if there are issues and include his name for "contact purposes" if there are questions. Then make sure you have your Attorney's Cell Phone # and that of a good Bail Bondsman, just in case. Lastly, carry a cheap gun that you could afford to loose.

Unfortunately, things will only change when so called "rule makers" start loosing in court. Until then it's just a case of "tell it to the Judge" after they have you arrested.