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Thread: Pierce County Parks Issue Resolved - Guns Allowed - No Discharge

  1. #1
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Pierce County Parks Issue Resolved - Guns Allowed - No Discharge

    I spoke with Kent Baskett, Director of Pierce County Parks today 8-06-2010 @ 9:15AM.

    He confirmed he recieved my email and indicated that the rules for parks and trails had been changed in 08' to reflect state law and that all the signs had been changed....Maybe Swatspyder, you were more effective than you thought.

    I mentioned to him that the website as of last week still indicated "no firearms" and the signs at Chambers Creek Golf course were still incorrect.

    He indicated that he missed updating the website (for two years!) and that it was now done and limited to "no discharge" and Chambers Creek was managed by another office under parks and that he would notifiy them to change the signage....since I walk there 2-3 times a week, I'll keep my eye on it.....and bug him if need be.

    Looks like we should pick a park for a get-together....any ideas?

    Anyway, he said no problem, we're good to go.....

    Thanks to GoGoDawgs and Winchestermodel12 for writing Parks on this too...good job guys!
    Last edited by jt59; 08-06-2010 at 12:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    I spoke with Kent Baskett, Director of Pierce County Parks today 8-06-2010 @ 9:15AM.

    He confirmed he recieved my email and indicated that the rules for parks and trails had been changed in 08' to reflect state law and that all the signs had been changed....Maybe Swatspyder, you were more effective than you thought.

    I mentioned to him that the website as of last week still indicated "no firearms" and the signs at Chambers Creek Golf course were still incorrect.

    He indicated that he missed updating the website (for two years!) and that it was now done and limited to "no discharge" and Chambers Creek was managed by another office under parks and that he would notifiy them to change the signage....since I walk there 2-3 times a week, I'll keep my eye on it.....and bug him if need be.

    Looks like we should pick a park for a get-together....any ideas?

    Anyway, he said no problem, we're good to go.....

    Thanks to GoGoDawgs and Winchestermodel12 for writing Parks on this too...good job guys!

    Thats great news. Got anything in writing?

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Thats great news. Got anything in writing?
    Good Question...and thankyou for asking it.

    I started out here...

    What specifically, is not prohibited is allowed:

    Pierce County Parks Website

    http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/pc/servic.../fac-rules.htm and the corrections made to the website list of prohibitions...

    But.........I dug a little deeper (damn -it).... the Title 14 Parks and Recreation Code that is listed on-line: Section 14.08.060 - I , still has the reference to loaded guns not allowed...

    I called Kent back and ran him through the paces....darn it, if he didn't start backpeddling a bit when I qued him up on the code not being correct. Here is what he said when I asked him why he told me this was done in 2008 and signage is still out there, (campbell creek)

    "Well, I don't know?....we sent a resoution to the Council in 08', I'll have to check".

    I said: "OK, so how long will that take? a day or two? because I'd like to get a copy of the resolution and follow up with you on this.....if you sent a resolution to the council in 08, then you should know if it was acted on"

    He said: "Uh, sure, I'll have to get to my supervisor and see if they acted on it, it could be that the code was updated and the current version wasn't posted to the website"......

    I said: " I'm sure that you don't mind if I follow up with you in a day or two..."

    Fool me once shame on you....fool me twice shame on me......I have a one strike and your out rule on this kind of stuff.

    I will pursue this to it's natural conclusion.....maybe it was just an administrative oversight on the paperwork.
    Last edited by jt59; 08-06-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    Thanks, jt59. We appreciate your efforts. And although I don't live in Pierce (live in Thurston) let me know what I can do to help. I will look out for the same here and post my efforts.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Thanks, jt59. We appreciate your efforts. And although I don't live in Pierce (live in Thurston) let me know what I can do to help. I will look out for the same here and post my efforts.
    I contacted Dick Muri on the County Council:

    We'll see what he says/......and can help.

  6. #6
    69Charger
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    Right on.
    Great to know.
    Thanks for the update.
    Dave

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    Jt59,

    I went to Yelm City Park with the family today and they had a sign prohibiting certain items and activities, among the was "No Weapons YMC 9.68.040"
    I am certain that this includes guns, but they are cleverly trying to circumvent the actual verbiage. So my next step is to formulate a letter and I need your assistance in doing so. Care to email or PM a sample letter citing RCW and such? Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Jt59,

    I went to Yelm City Park with the family today and they had a sign prohibiting certain items and activities, among the was "No Weapons YMC 9.68.040"
    I am certain that this includes guns, but they are cleverly trying to circumvent the actual verbiage. So my next step is to formulate a letter and I need your assistance in doing so. Care to email or PM a sample letter citing RCW and such? Thanks!
    No problemo...

    will PM

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Update on Pierce County parks and trails gun ban

    Ok,

    So, they say gentle pressure applied relentlessly......

    Kent Basket - head of parks isn't returning my calls (but that don't mean he ain't working!)

    Mr Muri - Friendly council member did not acknowledge my email to prod Mr. Basket Along...(but that don't mean he ain't working).

    Digging deeper into the sub-committee's to the council (Public Safety to be specific), I spoke to a nice young lady who couldn't help me but got me sighted (sorry) in the right direction.

    I told her, that it had been indicated to me by Mr. Basket that a revision to the code had been made two years ago.....and she turned me on to the Pierce County Code Reviser who would know all....

    Susan Long is a very nice lady and helpful...."Funny you should ask", she said..."I wrote that a couple of years ago, and it seems it never got out of Parks"...."but about a week ago, I got a call to revive it..So, it's in process (she explained, but take my word, it's long, having to do with public notification guidelines) and will take 6-8 weeks to get back to the Council for an action vote." She said "there should be no problem with it at all, the rules under state pre-emption are clear and this is uneforceable although not all the local enforcement agencies may know that......and thank you for bringing it to our attention"

    So, the efforts are paying off, but we need to be patient....I am also requesting that as many of you that can, give her a call and your e-mail address to be put on her "interested party" list and she will advise us of the progress and when it will come up on the agenda to the council (and public hearing process)....

    Her direct line is: 253-298-6068

    Tell her you are "interested in the proposed code revision to "Title 14.08.060 - I" regarding guns in county parks and trails coming in line with the state pre-emption outlined in RCW 9.41.290"

    We need to make as much of a buzz on this up front, as we can.....Then sit back and wait, and when it comes up, we need to make a good strong, professional showing to the council at the public comments time in support of this open mis-carry of justice.

    Please post here when/if you can do this so we can get a feel for how much support we're bringing...no doubt the line will be long on the other side.
    Last edited by jt59; 08-11-2010 at 06:41 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member WinchesterModel12's Avatar
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    I'll be giving her a call in the morning.
    Thanks for the information
    If guns kill people......then all of mine are defective........ UNCLE TED

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I think it was '08 that I contacted him. There's a thread in here somewhere. He had the signs "taped" over but someone pulled the tape off.

  12. #12
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    I think it was '08 that I contacted him. There's a thread in here somewhere. He had the signs "taped" over but someone pulled the tape off.
    That would be about right with what the Parks guy said...he just left out the part that they never did anything with the actual code revision so that the county council could vote on it....it's obviously unenforceable like all these are, but it's still on the books.

    Hopefully we'll get that fixed shortly....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Does that link to a message in your inbox? We can't see it unless we have your login info, which I don't imagine you want us to have

    Can you copy and paste the message?

  14. #14
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G22Paddy View Post
    Does that link to a message in your inbox? We can't see it unless we have your login info, which I don't imagine you want us to have

    Can you copy and paste the message?
    Yeah, that was a little wierd. I finally got a call back from the parks guy and he sent me the revised code that was written in 2008 and is being forwarded to the council. It was a Word document in an online view....anyway, I opened it, tried to paste in the link and then when I tried to check the link, it went straight to my email....no, I don't want everyone in it...

    Here's the best I can do for now until I get back from Montana...but good news, this is what they'll be voting on! Just a little odd that they never quite got around to voting on it in 2008...

    Sponsored by: Councilmember File No.
    Requested by: Park and Recreation Services Department




    ORDINANCE NO. 2008-




    An Ordinance of the Pierce County Council Amending Section 14.08.060 I. of the Pierce County Code, "Park Code", to Remove Regulatory Language Relating to Firearms in Parks in Recognition of the State’s Preemption of Firearms Regulation in RCW 9.41.290.

    Whereas, Section 14.08.060 I. of the Pierce County Code (PCC) provides that it is unlawful to possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism or to discharge across, in or into any park a firearm, air or gas weapon or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal or damaging or destroying any public or private property; and

    Whereas, RCW 9.41.290 clearly preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the state “…including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components.”; and
    Whereas, the preemptive language in RCW 9.41.290 does make an exception, allowing local governments to enact laws, as in RCW 9.41.300, restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their jurisdiction where there is “a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized.”; and

    Whereas, the first clause contained in PCC 14.08.060 I. is preempted and repealed as a matter of law and that language should be removed from the County Code; and

    Whereas, the Council has previously found that the discharge of a firearm across, in or into any County park presents a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized and therefore, the remainder of PCC 14.08.060 I. is consistent with both RCW 9.41.290 and 9.41.300 and should remain valid law; Now Therefore,

    BE IT ORDAINED by the Council of Pierce County:


    Section 1. Section14.08.060 I. of the Pierce County Code is hereby amended as follows:

    "14.08.060 Prohibited Activities.
    It is unlawful for any person to:
    I. Possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, or d (This will be deleted)

    Discharge across, in or into any park a firearm, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal or damaging or destroying any public or private property." This part stays in keeping with their development of shooting free zones

    PASSED this day of , 2008.

    ATTEST: PIERCE COUNTY COUNCIL
    Pierce County, Washington



    Denise D. Johnson Terry Lee
    Clerk of the Council Council Chair



    John W. Ladenburg
    Pierce County Executive
    Approved Vetoed , this
    day of ,
    2008.

    Date of Publication of
    Notice of Public Hearing:

    Effective Date of Ordinance:

    Document1
    Last edited by jt59; 08-12-2010 at 09:37 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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