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Thread: So no firearms OR OC Spray allowed in the S.S. office?

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    So no firearms OR OC Spray allowed in the S.S. office?

    I'm pretty sure the U.S. Code said "Firearms or other dangerous weapons". Since when is O.C. Spray a dangerous weapon? They told my wife she had to go bring it back out to the car. She carries personal protection spray on her key chain and denied her entrance.

  2. #2
    69Charger
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    There can be a lot of anger in there. Fuel for a bad happening.
    JMHO
    Dave

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
    There can be a lot of anger in there. Fuel for a bad happening.
    JMHO
    Dave
    All the more reason to be allowed to carry.
    There can be a lot of anger in DOL but we carry there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    All the more reason to be allowed to carry.
    There can be a lot of anger in DOL but we carry there.
    Perhaps the difference is SS is federal and DOL is state.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


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    When I lived in the PRK south I was hassled for having a Buck 110 on my belt when I tried to enter a SS office. I had to leave in locked in my pu.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Perhaps the difference is SS is federal and DOL is state.
    LOL....yea folks are more angry with the feds lately,,,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    LOL....yea folks are more angry with the feds lately,,,,
    What I meant by that is I don't believe we are allowed to carry in any federal bldg, such as the post office. I also think that that was the law long before the current adminstration. That said, I do agree with you that a lot of folks are upset with the feds, and for good reason.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I'm pretty sure the U.S. Code said "Firearms or other dangerous weapons". Since when is O.C. Spray a dangerous weapon? They told my wife she had to go bring it back out to the car. She carries personal protection spray on her key chain and denied her entrance.
    Interpretation of what consists of a "Dangerous Weapon" is left to the "Rent-a-Cop" at the door. Most don't realize that some ball point pens are far more lethal than OC spray.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    S.S. office......hmmmm....lol....wasn't there some other group that went by that name?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    s.s. Office......hmmmm....lol....wasn't there some other group that went by that name?
    +1

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    1911 before dialing 911.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Interpretation of what consists of a "Dangerous Weapon" is left to the "Rent-a-Cop" at the door. Most don't realize that some ball point pens are far more lethal than OC spray.
    I wonder if the law leaves it up to them. My wife didn't get the name of the contracting agency that the security officer worked for, but I am pretty sure O.C. Spray is not defined as a dangerous weapon. Everyone government building under state or local jurisdiction, here in Washington, has to allow it. Not sure about U.S. buildings, but it's pretty stupid if it's banned. I can't find any law specifically banning O.C. spray. Just "dangerous weapons" and "firearms".

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I wonder if the law leaves it up to them. My wife didn't get the name of the contracting agency that the security officer worked for, but I am pretty sure O.C. Spray is not defined as a dangerous weapon. Everyone government building under state or local jurisdiction, here in Washington, has to allow it. Not sure about U.S. buildings, but it's pretty stupid if it's banned. I can't find any law specifically banning O.C. spray. Just "dangerous weapons" and "firearms".
    It's not a matter of law, necessarily, but a matter of "rule". The SS offices are federal "property" and as such exclude any weapon. While WA State specifically allows OC spray to be carried and prohibits any local laws from prohibiting it's carry, that is not so at the Federal level. OC spray IS considered a weapon in many states, Maryland for example.

    Sometimes it is just best to keep things concealed. As for me, I find those Key Chain OC sprays to be just a little lacking. Miss with the first shot and there aren't a lot left. I carry a 3 oz. container in a pocket. Out of sight and not subject to a "Rent-a-Cop's" scrutiny.

    This does bring up an interesting thought. Have you ever noticed that the government offices seem to be "fortifying" their offices? I guess that shows what they think of their "customers".
    Last edited by amlevin; 08-08-2010 at 12:27 PM.

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    Just found out the U.S. Definition of "Dangerous weapon", and pepper spray does not fall in the category.

    "(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length. "

    If anyone can cite a particular "rule" created by the Social Security office itself, that'd be great.. I'll look in to it in the meantime.

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    So basically, considering pepper spray isn't preempted on a national level, government offices can create rules to restrict it from the premises, yet, can't make it unlawful? (Seeing how only the legislature can do such a thing).

    Does that also mean Washington State owned and operated buildings and property can create rules to restrict firearm possession on their premises? For example, Department of Licensing, Washington State Parks and Ferry's, Department of Social and Health Services, etc?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post

    Does that also mean Washington State owned and operated buildings and property can create rules to restrict firearm possession on their premises? For example, Department of Licensing, Washington State Parks and Ferry's, Department of Social and Health Services, etc?
    We have had some discussion on this, I don't believe they can, Washington state law is specific on were it is prohibited.
    Preemption is only to say that other municipalities and localities cannot override state law, it does not in my opinion mean that the state is exempt from it's own law.

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    "Rules" often have the force of law - tell it to the judge response.

    http://www.peacemakerpepperspray.com/page/894784
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Just found out the U.S. Definition of "Dangerous weapon", and pepper spray does not fall in the category.

    "(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length. "

    If anyone can cite a particular "rule" created by the Social Security office itself, that'd be great.. I'll look in to it in the meantime.
    You are overlooking the security officer. If HE says you can't bring it in, that means either you don't or you have to find someone to overrule him. Good luck on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    You are overlooking the security officer. If HE says you can't bring it in, that means either you don't or you have to find someone to overrule him. Good luck on that.
    Right, but by law, can he? If it's not restricted on a legal level, can they tell you not to bring it in? If there are no laws against it, isn't that the same as telling a person to leave their hair brush in the car?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Rat tail combs banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Right, but by law, can he? If it's not restricted on a legal level, can they tell you not to bring it in? If there are no laws against it, isn't that the same as telling a person to leave their hair brush in the car?
    Rules are the "law" until overturned by a higher authority.
    http://www.whiotv.com/news/10065452/detail.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Right, but by law, can he? If it's not restricted on a legal level, can they tell you not to bring it in? If there are no laws against it, isn't that the same as telling a person to leave their hair brush in the car?
    If you are standing there at the door and he says you can't bring something in, you have two choices. Don't, or go ahead and try to bring it in, telling him he has no authority under law to do so. Let us know how that works out for you.

    If you think that the Social Security office is going against the law, you can file a complaint with them or take them to court. Since they are not subject to WA State "Preemption" you'll have to rely on the federal system for any relief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    If you are standing there at the door and he says you can't bring something in, you have two choices. Don't, or go ahead and try to bring it in, telling him he has no authority under law to do so. Let us know how that works out for you.

    If you think that the Social Security office is going against the law, you can file a complaint with them or take them to court. Since they are not subject to WA State "Preemption" you'll have to rely on the federal system for any relief.
    This is what I am asking. Is the security officer going against the law? Remember, O.C. Spray isn't restricted by federal law, as it is not a "dangerous weapon" - at least not dangerous under the definition of the United States Legislature.

    My question is, what authority does the security officer have in enforcing this? I am asking because I truly want to know.

    Does Congress allow U.S. Agencies the ability to create their own "rules", similar to that of the W.A.C.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    This is what I am asking. Is the security officer going against the law? Remember, O.C. Spray isn't restricted by federal law, as it is not a "dangerous weapon" - at least not dangerous under the definition of the United States Legislature.

    My question is, what authority does the security officer have in enforcing this? I am asking because I truly want to know.

    Does Congress allow U.S. Agencies the ability to create their own "rules", similar to that of the W.A.C.?

    Yeah kind of. The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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