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Thread: I want to transfer 2 rifles to my son

  1. #1
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I want to transfer 2 rifles to my son

    I've got 2 rifles that I want to give to my son in Lychburg. Can anyone direct me to a FFL in that area that will take shipments from a private party?

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I don't know abot an FFL in the area but if I'm not mistaken, you can ship them to yourself at that address for your son to hold until you arrive.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    There are a few shops in town, the only one I have dealt with is Ace Hardware & Guns.
    2200 Lakeside Dr
    Lynchburg, VA 24501-6702
    (434) 385-6388

    Don't know how they are on transfers, have only dealt in person. Regardless of whether the OP ships the guns or carries them himself, for interstate transfers of ownership he'll have to go through a Virginia FFL to be completely legal. Stupid law, but the law nonetheless.

    Of course, if they happened to be over fifty years old, and the son has a C&R license (thirty bucks) he could ship them directly to his son.
    Last edited by zoom6zoom; 08-07-2010 at 11:20 AM.

  4. #4
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    Ace is a good spot but there transfer fees are high from what I recall. Try MC Leather and Sporting Goods ( http://www.mc-leather.com ). I think they'll do transfers for $15. Their contact info is likely on the website.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I assume by TRANSFER you mean ship. If they are your SONS property.. just ship them back to him as per his request.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I assume by TRANSFER you mean ship. If they are your SONS property.. just ship them back to him as per his request.
    How silly of me. I was thinking he was going to use them himself whenever he came over to visit his son.

  7. #7
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Actually, I want to give them to him, as in a gift.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Actually, I want to give them to him, as in a gift.
    so.. you already gave them to him and he is NOW the owner.. and now you want to just ship him his OWN rifles? I don't see the problem/issue
    Last edited by ed; 08-07-2010 at 03:03 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    so.. you already gave them to him and he is NOW the owner.. and now you want to just ship him his OWN rifles? I don't see the problem/issue
    This sounds right to me.
    Last edited by buster81; 08-10-2010 at 10:30 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Play all the semantic games you like. Someone else googles this thread and says, hey it's OK, and you've gone and got them committing a felony.

    They are residents of different states at the time of the transfer (gift or purchase makes no difference. To be legal it must go through an FFL dealer. For long guns it can be a dealer in either state, for handguns the FFL must be in the receiver's state.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html
    Last edited by zoom6zoom; 08-07-2010 at 02:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Play all the semantic games you like. Someone else googles this thread and says, hey it's OK, and you've gone and got them committing a felony.

    They are residents of different states at the time of the transfer (gift or purchase makes no difference. To be legal it must go through an FFL dealer. For long guns it can be a dealer in either state, for handguns the FFL must be in the receiver's state.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html
    Just trying to give the options for any particular circumstance Zoom. He could have given them to him 20 years ago and has just been storing them for him or he may want to store them at his sons for his own use.

    Those aren't word games, it's law. No one here would sugguest breaking the law, but I doubt anyone would advocate transferring if it had already been legally done FTF or if he was only shipping them for future use.

    The OP is intelligent enough to know that and no matter who reads it, it's legal.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    just trying to give the options for any particular circumstance zoom. He could have given them to him 20 years ago and has just been storing them for him
    exactly.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Since there is no gun registration, I would think if a father wanted to give his son a couple rifles that there would be no transfer/paperwork EXCEPT that he wants to ship them.

    Since he was shipping them his son would need to be above 21 to receive them via the FFL. An FFL would make his son fill out the forms as if he were purchasing the guns and run a check to see if he was in the bad-guy database then collect the transfer fee and give the son the guns.

    I believe that if the father drove to VA and gave his son the rifles no paperwork would be needed at least in VA. I guess other states may have other more restrictive laws.

    I poked around the ATF webpage and didn't see anything for "family" transfers or the like. I was annoyed to see on their "official" website "Brady" reports!

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Transfer title to the guns from you to your son in Texas (assuming it's legal there, I wouldn't know, not licensed in Tx). Draft a bill of sale form, and get your signature notarized in Texas. Make two originals, one for you to keep and one to put in the box. You can then lawfully mail your son HIS rifles to him in Virginia. Yes, I said "mail". They do have to be unloaded and not shipped with any ammunition.

    You're supposed to tell the USPS clerks what's in the box and they've got the right to open it to make sure they're unloaded. But do not place any indication on the box that suggests there's a gun inside. Best to have the bolt removed, mazazines out, or action open, as appropriate so they can go through the x ray machine without causing suspicions. If the clerks raise a fuss, ask them to consult the USPS publication called "The Domestic Mail Manual".
    Last edited by user; 08-07-2010 at 06:08 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I don't want to skip the good guy/bad guy check. Really can't afford to for his sake. He works for a government contractor that is security sensitive and he might not have a job if for whatever reason they find out we skipped the formalities. I really don't like it any more than the next guy, but I need to protect his livelihood. All I need is a FFL that accepts shipments from a private party. I'll call Ace and MC on Tuesday.

    Thanks guys.

  16. #16
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    I have absolutely no knowledge of the area, but I found this online.

    http://www.superpages.com/yellowpage...VA/T-Lynchburg

  17. #17
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    And here's a list of FFL's in the Lynchburg area off GunBroker.com

    http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/SearchF...0Code&sv=24501

  18. #18
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I had no idea you could do a FFL search on gunbroker. Thanks guys. That's what I needed.

  19. #19
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    *Is slightly disgusted*

    Anyone could justify involving Federal Law between a father and son for any reason.

    It feels wrong. There is something fundamentally abhorrent about it.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  20. #20
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Anyone could justify involving Federal Law between a father and son for any reason.

    It feels wrong. There is something fundamentally abhorrent about it.
    I agree, but it is what it is. What're ya gonna do? 42 years of this crap and people expect that it's been here since the revolution. Not much chance of repealing it now. People think it prevents crime, but actually all it does is create crime. Paperwork crime by the FFLs. There are people doing time and some have lost everything over paperwork. It's a shame our "free" country has come to this.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Now that I've read Rodbenders reason for being extra careful, I understand and agree completely.

    My son works for a very large Defense Contractor also. He has security clearances and it's a damn good job.

    I spent the first 25 years of his life sweating, doing without and choosing his friends, so he would be educated and mentally prepared to deal with the unfair business world.

    I wouldn't jeopardize that for anything, certainly not for a few dollars and a trip to an FFL/
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-08-2010 at 12:07 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    He could have given them to him 20 years ago and has just been storing them for him or he may want to store them at his sons for his own use.
    Yes, but in his very first post he said "I WANT to give", not "I gave", so that's what my reply was based on. Not trying to pick nits, just trying to keep all my forum friends out of trouble. We want to avoid having to give money to lawyers so we can spend it on ammo and OC lunches.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    ... But if ya gotta give some money to an attorney, User seems like a nice-enough fellow to receive your donation...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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  24. #24
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    Knowing (by easy assumption) that your son either works for my company or our competition, which is also in town I fully understand your desire to keep everything legal. Mike Coffey and the guys over at Ace should be able to take care of you nicely. If your son lives north of the city, also consider a new spot called Amherst Arms.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 08-08-2010 at 10:59 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I would like to clarify,

    I am not disgusted with the OP as a person, but with the situation he's been placed in.

    When re-reading my post I realized it was worded poorly. My apologies if offense was taken.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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