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Thread: Workplace - No Weapon Policy

  1. #1
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    Question Workplace - No Weapon Policy

    I need your feedback on this subject.

    I understand and am ok with not bringing my weapon into the workplace, but you are not allowed to even bring it to the property (parking lot). Where is our right to carry then? I think if our gun is securely locked in our cars, then we should be able to keep it there until we get out of work. I mean after what happened in "Manchester" doesn't it make you think...on top of that I have to wait until I get home to get my gun. What if I need to defend myself before I get home - it defeats the purpose of getting a permit that gives you the right to carry. How do you feel about this? Let me know.

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    I'm the boss, so I make the rules, and my rule is "carry what you want, where you want, within the bounds of the law....just don't carry in front of customers unless you know FOR A FACT that they don't mind". I carry virtually everywhere, but I leave it in the truck when I talk to most customers. Some customers get to handle my rifles, and on occasion my carry pistol. I've taken most employees shooting.

    If I were an employee and there was a "no guns in the parking lot" rule, I'd either park somewhere off site or ignore the rule altogether. Laws are different, but the worst that can happen for violating a rule is dismissal.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hef View Post
    I'm the boss, so I make the rules, and my rule is "carry what you want, where you want, within the bounds of the law....just don't carry in front of customers unless you know FOR A FACT that they don't mind". I carry virtually everywhere, but I leave it in the truck when I talk to most customers. Some customers get to handle my rifles, and on occasion my carry pistol. I've taken most employees shooting.
    Very pro attitude - you are to be commended.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hef View Post
    If I were an employee and there was a "no guns in the parking lot" rule, I'd either park somewhere off site...
    This is what I would do.

    You also have to consider, if an incident occurs and you make it out of the building and to your car, what is your gun going to do for you? You're already at your car, just drive away. If you were to re-enter the building, you set yourself up for criminal/civil liabilities because you have a duty to retreat.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gluegun View Post
    This is what I would do.

    You also have to consider, if an incident occurs and you make it out of the building and to your car, what is your gun going to do for you? You're already at your car, just drive away. If you were to re-enter the building, you set yourself up for criminal/civil liabilities because you have a duty to retreat.
    "However, an exception to this duty to retreat rule may exist for situations where one is attacked in one's home or business premises, which includes one's place of employment while lawfully engaged in one's occupation. Conn. Gen. Stat. e 53a-19(b);1 Redondo v. State, 380 So. 2d 1107 (Fla. App. 1980) citing annot. 41 A.L.R. 3d 584, 589-602. As the following will demonstrate, these exceptions to the duty to retreat are not absolute."
    http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=1770&Q=281218
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    At my last job, weapons were not permitted on the property.
    My gun would remain locked in the glove box.
    Security patrolled the parking lot all day so, no fear of a break in.
    Being unarmed while traveling to and from or while running errands after work was something that I would not do.

    My glove box was none of their business!!!

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    There are a couple of facts about the quoted AG opinion that I think are relevant:
    - The exception *may* exist, but since there is no precedent (there is dicta in CT cases and persuasive precedent out of FL, but none of that holds legal weight) it has not been definitively proven to exist in a court of law with jurisdiction over the State of CT.
    - The conclusion of the opinion was, "For all the foregoing reasons, it is our opinion that generally, liquor control agents have duty to retreat from a threatened assault in the workplace, if it is safe to do so, except where the workplace is also the agent's home."

    By leaving the building and going to your car, you already have retreated. Any claim you might have had, while in the building, that you don't have a duty to retreat is moot. You've also lost the justification for using deadly physical force. My previous statement is still valid, re-entering the building armed would just set you up for unnecessary civil and/or criminal liabilities.

    Conn. Gen. Stat. e 53a-19(b) provides as follows:
    Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety (1) by retreating, except that the actor shall not be required to retreat if he is in his dwelling, as defined in section 53a-100, or place of work and was not the initial aggressor, or if he is a peace officer or a private person assisting such peace officer at his direction, and acting pursuant to section 53a-22, or (2) by surrendering possession of property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto, or (3) by complying with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Smile

    This is my favorite reason for having a CCDW Permit.

    What they don't see, they have no idea about.

    Of course, I'm talking about the other guy, I abide by the rules....

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    This is my favorite reason for having a CCDW Permit.
    Where did you get a CCW (or CCDW) permit in CT? I don't know about you, but I have a 'Permit to carry', it says nothing about 'concealed'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Where did you get a CCW (or CCDW) permit in CT? I don't know about you, but I have a 'Permit to carry', it says nothing about 'concealed'.
    In Kentucky, there is no permit required to carry openly.

    I was referring to how, er, how I've heard that some with permits can conceal carry at work where the boss is hostile to firearms. It's not perfect, but workplace shootings can happen anywhere and personally I do not wish to be the one hiding under a table in the break room. I'd like the ability to return fire. Not that I would violate workplace policy ya know.

    In Kentucky, we have the CCDW Permit, which stands for "Concealed Carry Deadly Weapons" and allows you to not only carry firearms concealed, but also to conceal things such as the items below:

    * Any weapon from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or serious physical injury, may be discharged.
    * Any knife other than an ordinary pocket knife or hunting knife.
    * Billy, nightstick, or club.
    * Blackjack or slapjack.
    * Nunchaku karate sticks.
    * Shiriken or death star.
    * Artificial knuckles made from plastic, or other similar hard material.

    Cite: http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm

    If you're caught carrying at work, you can be fired, and if you are asked and refuse to leave, you can be charged with trespass. There are no other charges for simply carrying the firearm or weapon to work.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    In Kentucky, there is no permit required to carry openly.
    Good point. Sorry. Assumed you were from CT. I should know better. My fault.

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    I'm guessing I know where you work. I work there sometimes too. Until there is a metal detector or a pat down at the door, I will not be disarming. Omar disregarded the no firearms policy, why would you expect other lunatics to do any different? That's the whole point of concealed, isn't it? I'll lose a job over protecting my life. I've had a lot of jobs and will likely have a lot more.

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    Do They need a search warrant to check your car?

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    I don't believe they have any right to search your car, unless you go beyond a gated/guarded point. General parking is a public place. Their "rules" apply but they have no legal recourse to enforce them. Think about this, an oil service man comes to fix your furnace and is parked in your driveway. Do you have any right to search his van to make sure he doesn't have anything you don't like? Of course not. Plus, private security doesn't have the legal rights of police personnel. They are there to observe and then call real cops when a crime occurs.
    Don't leave anything in plain view (duh), and they have no crime to report.
    Last edited by AGust82; 08-10-2010 at 05:05 PM. Reason: mis-spel

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGust82 View Post
    Don't leave anything in plain view (duh), and they have no crime to report.
    Also, in general if you ever plan to leave your gun in your car unattended, I recommend investing in a good car safe.

    I recommend something like this:
    http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safes/microvault.html

    Remember, they will try and hold you liable if someone steals your gun or your whole car with your gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Remember, they will try and hold you liable if someone steals your gun or your whole car with your gun.
    Interesting.... since if you locked your car, you locked your property.

    So many parallels to vehicles and property law.

    I don't like the idea of a vehicle safe..... it calls attention that you have something of value. First thing they'll work on ripping out of your car.

    Growing up in Hartford, I can tell ya, it won't take 'em long to get it out if they really want it!

    Jonathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I don't like the idea of a vehicle safe..... it calls attention that you have something of value. First thing they'll work on ripping out of your car.
    If they are already searching through my car, I would rather them come to a safe and have to try and figure out how to get it out of the car. Having your firearm stored in the glovebox or console or under the seat or something is really not a great alternative.

    I figure at the very least, I have shown that I have done everything I can possibly do to secure the firearm.

    Besides, in most cases (I would hope) your firearm spends a lot more time on you than it does in the safe. Therefore, the criminal breaking into your car and spending time on the safe is now taking on a lot more risk to open a safe that has nothing of any real value in it.

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    Rich B I have my gun safe in my glove compartment with a steel cable cord attached to the SUV. it must be eazier to have a car because of the TRUNK. PLEASE HELP TO FIND MORE PLACES IN A SUV TRUCK. THANKS.

  19. #19
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I have an easy access spot, no lock, no attention made to it.

    My car, was stolen when I lived in Hartford. This spot had a laptop computer (small one). When the car was recovered, glovebox, stereo, everything in the trunk - completely rummaged or destroyed. Under the seat.... same thing.

    Laptop..... was still there.

    Cop laughed his ass off when I pulled it out of the car.

    Spot: The atlas pouch in the back of the passenger seat organizer!

    Easy access too!

    Jonathan

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    Rich B I have my gun safe in my glove compartment with a steel cable cord attached to the SUV. it must be eazier to have a car because of the TRUNK. PLEASE HELP TO FIND MORE PLACES IN A SUV TRUCK. THANKS.
    Under the seat works in most cars, chain it around the seat rails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    Do They need a search warrant to check your car?

    "They" would need your permission to search your car, which could be given by you under penalty of termination. Absent consent, "they" would need to call law enforcement IF your possession of a firearm in your vehicle would be illegal AND "they" have compelling evidence that there is a firearm in your vehicle. You could be in your vehicle and on your way home from work long before a judge would sign off on a search warrant for your car, unless you've been detained in the parking lot by an LEO (not a security guard).

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    I recall reading somewhere that in CT it is NOT illegal to carry in a place of business but its just against policy at most jobs including mine. ie you have to make the choice yourself and conceal conceal CONCEAL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hef View Post
    "They" would need your permission to search your car, which could be given by you under penalty of termination. Absent consent, "they" would need to call law enforcement IF your possession of a firearm in your vehicle would be illegal AND "they" have compelling evidence that there is a firearm in your vehicle. You could be in your vehicle and on your way home from work long before a judge would sign off on a search warrant for your car, unless you've been detained in the parking lot by an LEO (not a security guard).
    Unless the company policy states that they reserve the right to search your car and you have agreed to abide by company policy. Failure to do so is usually cause for termination.

    The company I work for reserves the right, at any time, to search my car, desk, bag, locker, etc. located on their property. Furthermore, it is my responsibility to report any suspicious behavior, threats, etc. to management. As a condition of employment I had to sign a document stating that I had read and agree to abide by that policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman2 View Post
    I recall reading somewhere that in CT it is NOT illegal to carry in a place of business but its just against policy at most jobs including mine. ie you have to make the choice yourself and conceal conceal CONCEAL!
    You are 100% correct. No crime is being committed by ignoring a policy like this. All they can do is fire you. Or ask you to leave if you are not an employee. If you refuse to leave it becomes simple trespassing. Conceal, conceal, CONCEAL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gluegun View Post
    Unless the company policy states that they reserve the right to search your car and you have agreed to abide by company policy. Failure to do so is usually cause for termination.

    The company I work for reserves the right, at any time, to search my car, desk, bag, locker, etc. located on their property. Furthermore, it is my responsibility to report any suspicious behavior, threats, etc. to management. As a condition of employment I had to sign a document stating that I had read and agree to abide by that policy.

    I addressed that point when I said:

    "They" would need your permission to search your car, which could be given by you under penalty of termination.

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