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Thread: Requirement to notify LEO's if recording?

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Requirement to notify LEO's if recording?

    I am sure this has been done, but I was ranging around on the forum and came across this discussion.

    It lead me to here: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/washington.html

    I thought I read somewhere here, that a LEO on duty as a public servent was in the public venue and therefore notification that you were recording the conversation or video-ing was "assumed" when making contact.

    This reference to the rules of engagement don't seem to say that.

    Clarification/Comment please?

    Also, there was a link to a pretty good set of recorders and subtle video (in a ball cap?) referenced too....could someone please bump that for me?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    I was at the sheriff's station the other day recording and they told me to turn it off because it's not legal. However, it IS legal. Also, if recording takes an all party consent, then surveillance from the police squad cars shouldn't be legal.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.030

    That's the RCW for recording "private" conversations. It says consent is gained when one party announces it. No party can say "don't record me." They can only not talk to not be recorded. Focus on number (2) where it says "unlawful requests or demands" need not be announced if you record.

    Just hide your recorder OR say "Am I under arrest?" If they say yes, use the magic words, "I am going to remain silent, and I would like to speak to my lawyer." Officers try hard to get you to admit to guilt so they can arrest you. Just shut up and keep the recorder rolling.

    Joe~

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejoejoe View Post
    I was at the sheriff's station the other day recording and they told me to turn it off because it's not legal. However, it IS legal. Also, if recording takes an all party consent, then surveillance from the police squad cars shouldn't be legal.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.030

    That's the RCW for recording "private" conversations. It says consent is gained when one party announces it. No party can say "don't record me." They can only not talk to not be recorded. Focus on number (2) where it says "unlawful requests or demands" need not be announced if you record.

    Just hide your recorder OR say "Am I under arrest?" If they say yes, use the magic words, "I am going to remain silent, and I would like to speak to my lawyer." Officers try hard to get you to admit to guilt so they can arrest you. Just shut up and keep the recorder rolling.

    Joe~
    Right, I am trying to find the citation for "public" conversations, which is what I would presume a police contact is, since they are called out for a "man with gun" complaint, or are taking action on their own observations and would call in the contact on their own radio. Your in a public place, public street, etc....which would allow you to do so.

    Anyway, for all, any memory or links to the personal recording devices would be appreciated....hmm, maybe it was on the Spokane meeting link?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    You are looking for Flora V. State.

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...;sa=view;id=27
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejoejoe View Post
    they told me to turn it off because it's not legal.
    Another fine example of why you don't get legal opinions from law enforcement officers. Legal opinions come from Lawyers, Prosecutors, Attorney's General, and Judges at all levels. Not your local "police station".

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    If you're going to announce it to an officer, you might as well not carry a recorder. Video from their dash cams "goes missing" on a regular basis, and if he smashes your recorder or deletes the recording, it's your word against his. If I were a less-than-moral police officer, I would destroy recordings whether or not I thought there was anything incriminating, for the same reason we shouldn't talk to the police - ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    You are looking for Flora V. State.

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...;sa=view;id=27
    This clears it up nicely I thinks and is what I previously read at one point...thank you.
    Last edited by jt59; 08-09-2010 at 04:48 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    if the LEO is required to file a report which is a matter of public record, how can it be logically argued that the conversation being reported was private?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strangerer View Post
    if the LEO is required to file a report which is a matter of public record, how can it be logically argued that the conversation being reported was private?
    In my opinion it can't and if you are a public official dealing with the public, i.e. me I am not going to inform and there is no need too.

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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strangerer View Post
    if the LEO is required to file a report which is a matter of public record, how can it be logically argued that the conversation being reported was private?
    Of course you're right, unfortunately sometimes police attempt to abuse the law in an effort to cover up their own bad behavior. See this example, which is particularly nasty:

    http://thepursuitofliberty.wordpress...-the-incident/

    Fortunately, this case is taking place in Maryland and generally speaking, cases where police attempt to use wiretapping laws to prosecute people for recording them are thrown out by judges, including in this state. But they can put you on their sh**-list so you have to cover yourself.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    In my opinion it can't and if you are a public official dealing with the public, i.e. me I am not going to inform and there is no need too.
    Exactly, I think the other hinge pin here is that the official is dealing with you in public....and around other people and thus couldn't expect the protection of "private conversation" not being recorded without permission.

    In the end, if it is a happy LEO contact, no worries, if not, your attorney will know what to do
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Im already on Cops sh*t list here.
    I don't think it matters if people are around or not. Public is public in my opinion. If it is in a back room of the police station or in a bathroom....etc I would say that is private. But every encounter I am approached I will record if able. Of course I'm not a lawyer.

    You surf? I do I go Westport and have seen plenty of sharks.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-09-2010 at 10:59 PM. Reason: p.s. comment

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Experience's like SVG...

    Is a good reason to record LEO encounters. Let the courts sort it out later if need be.

    Sometimes you don't need the court to rule in your favor. Ask the guy who the SPD "beat the Mexican piss" out of him. Sometimes Q13, Komo, King will be your 'court of public opinion'.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Im already on Cops sh*t list here.
    I don't think it matters if people are around or not. Public is public in my opinion. If it is in a back room of the police station or in a bathroom....etc I would say that is private. But every encounter I am approached I will record if able. Of course I'm not a lawyer.

    You surf? I do I go Westport and have seen plenty of sharks.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Is a good reason to record LEO encounters. Let the courts sort it out later if need be.

    Sometimes you don't need the court to rule in your favor. Ask the guy who the SPD "beat the Mexican piss" out of him. Sometimes Q13, Komo, King will be your 'court of public opinion'.
    Well put. I wonder how much they will be on our side though if it OC related? Guess it depends on the reporter.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well put. I wonder how much they will be on our side though if it OC related? Guess it depends on the reporter.
    Send it to Fox, send it to Breitbart, post it on YouTube! Create havoc for the agency involved!
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Im already on Cops sh*t list here.
    I don't think it matters if people are around or not. Public is public in my opinion. If it is in a back room of the police station or in a bathroom....etc I would say that is private. But every encounter I am approached I will record if able. Of course I'm not a lawyer.

    You surf? I do I go Westport and have seen plenty of sharks.
    No surfing for me, I just thought it was a cool picture. I've seen sharks too.....South Tacoma Way
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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