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Thread: The secure container law saved him criminal charges but he was still suspended

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    The secure container law saved him criminal charges but he was still suspended

    Although a VDOT spokesperson wouldn’t elaborate, she confirmed last week that an employee at the agency’s Wythe County headquarters was disciplined after an inmate who was cleaning the worker’s state truck found a gun in the glove compartment.
    “It is being handled with disciplinary action internally,” said Michelle Earl, spokesperson for the Virginia Department of Transportation’s Bristol District.
    Earl wouldn’t say who the employee was, but she did confirm the accuracy of a summary of the July 28 incident provided anonymously to the newspaper.

    http://www.swvatoday.com/news/articl...incident/7961/

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Why did it save him? If he was not occupying the truck then it was no longer "on his person." There is already a case law on this. I believe it was a guy that left his gun in his center console after an accident if memory serves me right? Anyways the guy would not have had the firearm on him at the time thus he would not fall under the new container law.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    He did have it in there while occupying the vehicle. He drove the vehicle to the local prison with it in the glove compartment, let one of the inmates in the car to clean it, then walked away while it was being detailed.

    No accident was involved.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    So he left a firearm under the effective control of a convicted criminal.

    Gross negligence, at best. He deserves the suspension at a minimum, but I'm not sure how the secure container law helped him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    So he left a firearm under the effective control of a convicted criminal.

    Gross negligence, at best. He deserves the suspension at a minimum, but I'm not sure how the secure container law helped him.
    I agree with that Tess.

    He very likely would have been charged with concealed carry since he did not have a CHP and it was concealed in the Glove Compartment when he drove it to the location and was parked. That's easy enough to prove because the inmate who reported it, was present when he brought the vehicle in.

    In order to have been legal without the Container Law, he would have to had it open until he parked it, then put it in the Glove Compartment and left.

    That really doesn't make a lot of difference to me though and is nit picky.
    Maybe I should change the title to IDIOT LEAVES GUN WITH INMATE AND IS SUSPENDED.

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I assumed that either way if he OC'd or had it in the glove compartment while driving, he was still not occupying the vehicle at the time that it was discovered. That was extremely negligent of him I will agree. I'm sure the inmate got some brownie points for this whole thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRF250rider1000 View Post
    I assumed that either way if he OC'd or had it in the glove compartment while driving, he was still not occupying the vehicle at the time that it was discovered. That was extremely negligent of him I will agree. I'm sure the inmate got some brownie points for this whole thing.
    I know what you mean, I have the case saved on my laptop. I'll try and find where I saved it.

    eta found it:

    Pruitt v. Commonwealth

    Open carry in car and leave gun in glovebox/center console concealed while exiting/parking vehicle
    Last edited by nova; 08-10-2010 at 05:51 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    IDIOT LEAVES GUN WITH INMATE AND IS SUSPENDED.
    +1

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRF250rider1000 View Post
    Why did it save him? If he was not occupying the truck then it was no longer "on his person." There is already a case law on this. I believe it was a guy that left his gun in his center console after an accident if memory serves me right? Anyways the guy would not have had the firearm on him at the time thus he would not fall under the new container law.
    Pruitt vs. Commonwealth 2007

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neplusultra View Post
    Pruitt vs. Commonwealth 2007
    Pruitt didn't allow you to have a gun in the glove box while traveling. Only while exiting, entering and while out of the car.

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    ...and while out of the car.
    My point exactly. He could have OC'd in the car or had it in the glove box the whole time but since it was not on his persons then technically he wasn't carrying it. Thus the new law does not apply in this case but the case law does regardless of which legal method of carrying he did while the gun was on his persons.

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    can someone link to the new law or paraphrase it for me? Being in NC for school, I'm not too up on new laws in the home state except that you can now carry concealed in places that serve alcohol, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrt6812 View Post
    can someone link to the new law or paraphrase it for me? Being in NC for school, I'm not too up on new laws in the home state except that you can now carry concealed in places that serve alcohol, correct?
    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    eta: and you're correct, a person with a CHP can now carry concealed in a restaurant or club licensed to serve alcohol for on-premises consumption, as long as they don't drink while carrying concealed on the premises.

    eta2: CRF250rider1000 nice avatar!
    Last edited by nova; 08-12-2010 at 10:56 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    eta: and you're correct, a person with a CHP can now carry concealed in a restaurant or club licensed to serve alcohol for on-premises consumption, as long as they don't drink while carrying concealed on the premises.

    eta2: CRF250rider1000 nice avatar!
    Just a little nitpick, you left out the top part to that list of exceptions, #10 of which is the new law, which states:

    "Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:"

    This new provision is a general exemption to the prohibition on carrying concealed weapons.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Just a little nitpick, you left out the top part to that list of exceptions, #10 of which is the new law, which states:

    "Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:"

    This new provision is a general exemption to the prohibition on carrying concealed weapons.

    TFred
    you're right let me go back and add that.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I think the felon cleaning the car is a SNITCH.

    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    you're right let me go back and add that.
    And needs to shut his damn mouth.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    so, in non legalese, does this mean you can now carry in the glove compartment whereas before you couldn't?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrt6812 View Post
    so, in non legalese, does this mean you can now carry in the glove compartment whereas before you couldn't?
    That's right. Any secured container in the vehicle/vessel.

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    So state employees are having inmates clean their state trucks. Is it me but isn't this INSANE?

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    funny

    how that was so unsurprising nobody bothered to point it out yet.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    So state employees are having inmates clean their state trucks. Is it me but isn't this INSANE?
    haha, inmates clean police and sheriff's cars all the time. Some police departments have contracts with Car Pool, which is essentially the same thing since a vast majority of their staff is on work release!
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    haha, inmates clean police and sheriff's cars all the time. Some police departments have contracts with Car Pool, which is essentially the same thing since a vast majority of their staff is on work release!
    Yep!
    And after they do their time....they make them a manager

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    being half VA, half NC, and i live on the border in NC. i travel a lot in VA. in NC, the gun is to be in the open (as in open carry), in plain view to not be concealed. if it is in a container it must be locked and out of immediate reach, or it will be considered concealed.

    now am i wrong but doesn't VA law say if you are in the vehicle the firearm is not to be left out but must be in a closed container (glove box, console)?

    i thought about this the other day when i had to travel a good bit in both states. and being honest was a little worried about it

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post

    now am i wrong but doesn't VA law say if you are in the vehicle the firearm is not to be left out but must be in a closed container (glove box, console)?
    It used to be just the opposite. It had to be in plain sight or where it wasn't accessible.

    Now you can keep it in the open or in any secured (Not necessary locked) container...glove box, console, etc.

    I'm in the same area as you and cross back an forth often.

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    I can't wait to start carrying. I'll probably start concealed and then cautiously move to OC but I have to get the permit first and fish around for my certificate from my hunter education course from about 15 years ago and of course scrounge up the cash for the $45 fee...and a better gun than the little .22 revolver I have. Hopefully it won't take long.

    I think someone mentioned being an NC/VA hybrid. I'm kind of wary about carrying in any form in NC because I read something about not being able to carry if you're watching a parade and have heard that you can't carry when you're in a large group of people. Doesn't make sense to me.

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