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Thread: Open Carry in Miami Dade County Parks and Marina

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    Open Carry in Miami Dade County Parks and Marina

    Hi Friends,

    I'm posting this because i ran into an obstacle. i wanted to go fishing in some area here in south florida(Miami/Homestead) and open carry. so before i did, i started calling around to make sure the park offices and Director were aware of the Florida Statue 790.25 (H) and to my surprise they knew nothing about it. all parks i called would tell me it was not allowed under there Rules and regulation.(Article 4?) Couldn't find anything regards that. So i managed to get in contact with a Capt. in the Park Safety and she would getting back to me tomorrow with any update. she was interested in find out herself so this should be good. ill post back any update. if anyone has had any issue in there county please post whether in Miami Dade County or any County in Florida or not.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    790.33 provides state preemption of all law relating to firearms. No local government entity in Florida can restrict you from carrying more than state law allows.

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    Is this the section were local Government have to enforce the Statue.

    (3) POLICY AND INTENT.--

    (a) It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.

    (b) As created by chapter 87-23, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the "Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act."

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    Quote Originally Posted by esavinon51 View Post
    Is this the section were local Government have to enforce the Statue.

    (3) POLICY AND INTENT.--

    (a) It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.

    (b) As created by chapter 87-23, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the "Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act."
    That one only explains the intent, this is the actual law:

    (1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.

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    Thanks for the reply. It something seems overwhelming at time. ill be sharing this info with The Director of Park and Recreation and County Attorney.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    The City of South Miami was sued and lost over a when it attempted to keep legal guns out of parks. See link:

    http://myfloridalegal.com/alerts.nsf...4?OpenDocument

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    Thank You Sean, that's a great link. waiting for the county attorney to return my phone call and ill be sharing this information with him.

    Thanks Again,

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    Well spoke with county attorney and he informed me that they do not counsel the public, only the Departments. He recommended to get in contact with the park offices and have them contact the attorney office. ill tell you what i've contacted the Park Director and Chief so they should be getting all of there information up to date. ill keep pushing into someone contacts me.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    There is some great info on the Florida Concealed Carry forums for preemption issues.
    See link:
    http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/For...cement-Efforts

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    See the letter at: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/For...676#post146676

    It is a great example.

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    County Attorney's Opinion About Carrying Firearms in County Parks.pdf Some information that was forward to me from the Dept. of Agriculture... The gentlemen was having the same issue that i'm having in Miami-Dade County..

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    See the letter at: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/For...676#post146676

    It is a great example.
    Thank you kind sir!

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    Lee County's view on open carry while fishing

    I thought you guys and gals might get a kick from the response I got from Lee County when I inquired about open carry while fishing at Matanzas Pass pier, a county facility.

    The County did consider the provisions of FS 790.25 prior to issuing its opinion. This section does not apply to the carrying of a concealed weapon. Instead, it articulates provisions regarding the lawful use and exhibition of weapons and firearms under certain limited circumstances.

    Openly carrying a firearm while fishing at the County fishing pier does not appear to be sanctioned by FS 790.25(3)(h), unless the firearm is equipment necessary to the fishing activity. In my experience, the weapons typically used for various fishing activities include spear guns and fishing knives. These weapons may be deemed properly and lawfully carried, displayed and used by a person engaged in permitted fishing activity at a County fishing pier.

    Based upon the above, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that a firearm can be openly carried and displayed simply because you are engaged in permitted fishing activity at the County fishing pier.

    With kind regards,

    Dawn E. Perry-Lehnert
    Assistant County Attorney
    Lee County Attorney's Office
    Phone: 239-533-2236
    Fax: 239-485-2106
    Lehnertd@leegov.com
    So, I replied with this:

    Ms. Perry-Lehnert,

    Once again, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment, and I'm sure the state legislature would concur.

    The reference statute, edited for applicability, states the following:

    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    (3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    Quoting from your response, "Openly carrying a firearms while fishing at the County fishing pier does not appear to be sanctioned by FS 790.25(3)(h), unless the firearm is equipment necessary to the fishing activity." I find no reference in Florida Statute for any requirement to provide evidence of a "necessity" to openly carry a firearm, merely that one must be engaged or travelling to or from the activity. Therefore I must conclude that if your e-mail accurately reflects the county's position on this issue, it is once again attempting to impose conditions above and beyond state statute with regards to lawful firearms possession and use in violation of 790.33 Florida Statutes.

    Additionally, I must add that any requirement to provide or prove a "need" to carry a firearm, is in direct conflict with 790.25(4) CONSTRUCTION.--This act shall be liberally construed to carry out the declaration of policy herein and in favor of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. This act is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms now guaranteed by law and decisions of the courts of Florida, and nothing herein shall impair or diminish any of such rights. This act shall supersede any law, ordinance, or regulation in conflict herewith.

    I would ask that you please provide comments
    Their only reply was that they would consider my e-mail when formulating their policy. Interesting reply, since the state forbids them from having a policy to begin with.

    Rich

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    This is precisely what I predicted would come of any attempt to OC in FL without being wealthy and well-connected.

    Even when informing them of the law, they still attempt to create a 'law' that is clearly not there.

    If you want to OC in FL under the Hunting/Fishing/Shooting/Camping exception, you'll have to be buddies with the CLEO in the area, and/or openly display your financial ability to litigate along with your firearm. Even if Florida were to turn Yellow, expect no LEO to abide it unless forced to do so under pain of homelessness.
    Last edited by ixtow; 08-16-2010 at 03:33 PM.

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    Update: Finally i got a phone call from the Park Director and informed me that all the information was submitted to the County Attorney to look into the matter. Ill be emailing him with all the information you guys passed on to me and i'll be contacting him in the next 2 weeks.

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    Regular Member FLEMTP's Avatar
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    I'll be following this thread. I live in lee county... and I fish quite frequently in and around the county... and i'd love to be able to OC while doing so. In fact, I fish quite often at the Fort Myers Beach pier.. and I would love to be able to OC there.. im sure the europeans on vacation would freak out!

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLEMTP View Post
    I'll be following this thread. I live in lee county... and I fish quite frequently in and around the county... and i'd love to be able to OC while doing so. In fact, I fish quite often at the Fort Myers Beach pier.. and I would love to be able to OC there.. im sure the europeans on vacation would freak out!
    Hmmm. I'm not sure freaking out the Europeans is a valid OC reason, but whatever floats your bobber, I suppose! If you have a CWFL, join us on www.floridaconcealedcarry.com as well! You might be surprised at what your Board of County Commissioners thinks of your rights!
    Last edited by Rich7553; 08-27-2010 at 03:10 PM.

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    I'm still waiting on the County Attorney to come back with any information, but ill keep posting. After this is cleared up i would like to get individual in other county to get the ball rolling so no other Citizen would have any issues down the road. Or if you guys can get in contact with your Park Director and share the concern and that you would like to update the local Police Department of Statue 790.25. Thanks for the Link for Florida Concealed Carry Forum.

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    Regular Member FLEMTP's Avatar
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    Lawyer sues to allow guns at beaches, parks

    Looks like Lee County is finally changing their signs!


    http://www.fox4now.com/Global/story.asp?S=13076711

    Fort Myers - What if the person laying out next to you at the beach was packing heat?

    A Fort Myers attorney is pushing to let gun owners with concealed weapons permits bring their firearms to public places.

    Patrick Buckley has been on a mission to overturn a Lee County ordinance banning guns at public parks and beaches since last year.

    "If an individual has a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm and has a valid drivers license," Buckley told Fox 4 a year ago. "They're allowed to legally conceal a firearm on a public beach."

    Buckley says an ordinance banning guns on beaches and parks is against state law. After a year of waiting he's now suing to get it overturned.

    He says state law should trump a county ordinance.

    "We don't want the county misleading anybody," said Buckley in his office Tuesday. "We want the county to take down those signs" saying 'no firearms.'

    "We want the county to make sure they never put those signs up unless the state law changes," said Buckley.

    Buckley, an attorney, carries his gun with him almost everywhere because he says crime can happen anywhere.

    A year ago he complained about a sign banning guns at Bowman's Beach, saying it violated state law. The county agreed with him, slapping duck tape over the sign but leaving other ones untouched.

    "So they changed the one specific sign I complained about," said Buckley. "But I suppose I should have been a little more specific and said all the signs not just this one."

    In a letter dated July 21, 2009 then interim county manager Karen Hawes responded to the complaint saying: "We agree with your assessment that the State of Florida preempts the regulation of firearms...and we're aware that the signs need to be removed...and reference to firearms deleted."

    But more than a year later Buckley says no attempt has been made by Lee County Parks to remove or cover the "no firearms" signs. So he decided to take the county to court.

    "Those signs are misleading the public into thinking they can't carry a gun into these places," said Buckley. "No one should have to give up their civil right to go to a park."

    Matt Grant
    mgrant@fox4now.com

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    We won't celebrate until the County actually corrects the signs and repeals the ordinance.

    Lee County has been fighting this for over a year. Even after they were contacted by a State Representative and the AG's office.

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    Thanks BRBOYER for that link. ill be sending it over to the Park Director to share with him what's happening in Fort Myer regarding the Miami Dade County Ordinances.

    Thanks Again,

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    We won't celebrate until the County actually corrects the signs and repeals the ordinance.

    Lee County has been fighting this for over a year. Even after they were contacted by a State Representative and the AG's office.
    Perhaps just a bit of celebration is in order. East County Water Control District has covered over the "no firearms" icon on their signs at Matheny and Farrell parks in Lehigh Acres, and are moving on to cover the word "guns" on the signs that list prohibitions along the canals here. I've spoken to Paula Camberato, the administative manager, who told me that they got tired of waiting on Lee County to come up with a legal alternative, so they decided on their own to comply with state statute. Patrick has removed them from the suit.

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    Open

    Just got a phone call from the Assistant Park Director and Basically was told that there is a County Ordinance and that it's there job to Enforce it. Not Surprised at all with this, Totally over looking Florida Statue 790:33. Guys if you have any feed back i would appreciate it..

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Yeah, This is why we need to fight. This is a clear violation of State law and your rights.

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    That's Right!! Sean i'll be seeing you on Saturday... Keep up the good fight!!!

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