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Thread: Man With A Gun At Big Lots...

  1. #1
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    Man With A Gun At Big Lots...

    ...turns out it was me. The employees are used to seeing me UOC, it must have been a customer that called the SDSO.

    After leaving the store I was approached by 3 deputies, with guns drawn. None pointed a weapon at me, even the one with an AR.

    My handgun and 2 full mags were removed from me. I mentioned to the senior deputy that this was the first time I had ever been "E" checked and she asked, "What's that?". I told her I was referring to 12031(e). Her reply was, "Are you from around here?" I told her I found that section of the CA Penal Code in 1988 and this was the first time I had been checked.

    I was asked for I.D. and told her that California isn't a stop and I.D. state, but since I'm not doing anything illegal, I don't have a problem with it.

    While my I.D. was being looked at, another deputy was looking for the serial number on my pistol. He couldn't find it, because it's covered by the laser sight. He just asked if it was registered to me.

    No one screwed up and I would have conducted the stop the same way.

    I could have done without the lecture about all of the officers (5 total) that had to respond because of me. When asked why I open carry, I told them, "For my safety and because I don't intend on being the next senior citizen crime victim."

    Got my gun and ammo back, re-holstered and went to Stater Brothers, across the parking lot.

    The whole thing is on video. I have video sunglasses.

    Too bad they didn't tell the person from Namby Pamby land, that called, to grow a set.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    It sounds like the Vista dispatcher needs a little training. 5 deputies may be a record
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  3. #3
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Nice little violation of your 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights, but you don't see anything wrong with it? And you would have done the same...gun drawn but not pointed is now OK? What am I missing here? Oh, and Thesius didn't do anything wrong either, but because they had his ID he lost his gun rights for 10 years.

    ETA: I like what a Colorado resident is doing about his police encounter when they violated his rights for sitting on a park bench with a holstered gun. Listen to Dave Champion's discussion in his August 3rd archive about citizen Bill Miller.
    Last edited by coolusername2007; 08-10-2010 at 10:45 PM.

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    They were on a call, MWAG. No where near a school zone. I've been on the same type calls, except those didn't involve an open carry incident.
    Having been in law enforcement, I know how the game is played. I know they were doing their job, nothing more.

    I'm fine with it because they didn't point at ME. I would have.

    If you don't dress like a banger or Joe **** the rag man, things go a lot smoother.

    All of the deputies knew it was a BS call, but had to go through the motions for the spectators. The whole thing last 9 minutes, including shooting the breeze with them.
    Last edited by yelohamr; 08-10-2010 at 11:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    nice little violation of your 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights, but you don't see anything wrong with it? And you would have done the same...gun drawn but not pointed is now ok? What am i missing here? Oh, and thesius didn't do anything wrong either, but because they had his id he lost his gun rights for 10 years.
    this! Wtf!

  6. #6
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Guns drawn or even a show of force can be considered a de facto arrest.

    http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/45
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yelohamr View Post
    They were on a call, MWAG. No where near a school zone. I've been on the same type calls, except those didn't involve an open carry incident.
    Having been in law enforcement, I know how the game is played. I know they were doing their job, nothing more.

    I'm fine with it because they didn't point at ME. I would have.

    If you don't dress like a banger or Joe **** the rag man, things go a lot smoother.

    All of the deputies knew it was a BS call, but had to go through the motions for the spectators. The whole thing last 9 minutes, including shooting the breeze with them.
    I know you were in law enforcement, and you seem to be just fine with their actions. That's my point. Drawing guns on a law abiding citizen for exercising their rights is not the right way to handle this. Especially at a time when there are highly publicized events regarding the fight to save our OC rights in this state and in a post McDonald PRK.

    The old adage of "I have nothing to hide, so I will cooperate" is no longer a valid viewpoint. We live in a state and in a time when the anti-gun government agents will stop at nothing to make their example of any law abiding citizen they choose to scare the hell out of everyone else who dares to exercise their civil liberties.

    I, for one, have everything to hide, and to protect, and its for me to know and for them to keep on wondering what it is.
    Last edited by coolusername2007; 08-11-2010 at 12:32 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josey Wales View Post
    this! Wtf!
    Which part of my post did you not understand? Do you not see how his rights were violated? If so, then I suspect you don't fully appreciate the full force of one's constitutionally protected rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    It sounds like the Vista dispatcher needs a little training. 5 deputies may be a record
    I set the record at five back in July 2008. Two with weapons pointed at me as I did the backward perp walk.

    However, I believe the record is far more than 5. Did you read about the LA incident? They closed down the street and dispatched a frickin' helicopter.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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  10. #10
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    im sorry to hear that you FAIL!

    volunteering your ID should never be done,, 5th A
    schooling them on the 12031E law, why?, so they dont actually violate your 4th A rights?
    AOK to draw down on you.

    ETA;; Im already sorry, and apologize for my rude response.

    but the points i made are important, and need to be understood.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 08-11-2010 at 07:55 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    We might say 'oop you messed up there, ah you gave in there', but we all know the drill if we've been stopped.

    I'm sorry to hear about your run-in yelo, but I'm glad you are ok.

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    I'll post the video later, the audio is choppy, so I edited it out on the copy. Most of the stop was me talking to a deputy about my ammo and where I was a cop. None of them had been born yet when I was in the academy.
    The female deputy was very professional and knew her lecture was going in one ear and out the other. She asked why I had an empty magazine in my weapon and I told her if I had a loaded one in it I'd get arrested. The empty one was to keep bugs out.
    When I told her as long as it was still legal to do so, I was going to continue to open carry. She guaranteed me that I would probably be stopped again.
    I won't lose any sleep over it.

  13. #13
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    +1 to everything coolusername2007 has said here. Guns drawn for practicing a fundamental right is definitely a losing situation.

    It should also be noted that after Theseus' stop he would have declared that he was also being nothing wrong and was nowhere near a school zone. He had multiple layers of legal protection (on private property, didn't offer his ID, wasn't aware that the school existed), but he still was found guilty.

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Wow, Yelohamr, 22yrs to bust your cherry? What a square, LOL! JK man. Hope it's MORE than 22yrs till you get checked again!

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    I do not really like how this went.

    The whole "guns drawn" thing is getting looked into, actually...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post

    It should also be noted that after Theseus' stop he would have declared that he was also being nothing wrong and was nowhere near a school zone. He had multiple layers of legal protection (on private property, didn't offer his ID, wasn't aware that the school existed), but he still was found guilty.
    Isn't Theseus filed a appealing?
    Last edited by Wc; 08-12-2010 at 08:17 AM.

  17. #17
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    old guy with a gun on his hip needs 5 cops to verify he's not a criminal? what did they think? you were going to rob social security?

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    Which part of my post did you not understand? Do you not see how his rights were violated? If so, then I suspect you don't fully appreciate the full force of one's constitutionally protected rights.
    I was agreeing with you!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yelohamr View Post
    No one screwed up and I would have conducted the stop the same way. .
    My opinion differs from yours, because I believe that any politicians who voted for or allow to stand any law against loaded carry, or any other law directly contradictory to the bill of rights like 12031, should face treason charges. Furthermore, any police officers who uphold these laws should at LEAST be fired for failing to obey the oath they took when they were hired.

    As it stands now, I truly don't believe California can be considered part of the united states, because both the government of the state and its people at large neither have nor want the constitution enforced.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-12-2010 at 11:56 AM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  20. #20
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    Your experience doesn't give me warm fuzzys either. But this forum is filled with folks with different tolerance levels.
    I had six of San Diego's finest meet me coming out of a grocery store. The Sargent on the scene threatened to "take me down town" if I didn't cough up some ID. Ran my ID, ran my serial number, brow-beat me about a 15 year-old court case, then let me go.
    I requested that they explain to the manager of the store that I was not doing anything wrong. They said they would.
    I think we've made some progress since that time.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yelohamr View Post
    I could have done without the lecture about all of the officers (5 total) that had to respond because of me.
    The next time you receive this precious little lecture, kindly inform them that they didn't have to respond because of you, they had to respond because of a frightened sheep that was afraid of a peaceful citizen obeying the law.

    If it were me, I'd inform them that: "I look forward to the day when thousands of cops are pointlessly chasing after calm and peaceful armed citizens and wasting hundreds of thousands of departmental dollars in fuitless efforts to catch minor slips by lawful OC'ers. Maybe you should start issuing CCW permits to folks who are lawfully allowed to posess them and you wouldn't get these calls. Until then, have fun chasing after an animal of your own creation!"

    But, I don't blame you for not adding the last part.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josey Wales View Post
    I was agreeing with you!
    Oops. In that case, uh...right on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    The next time you receive this precious little lecture, kindly inform them that they didn't have to respond because of you, they had to respond because of a frightened sheep that was afraid of a peaceful citizen obeying the law.

    If it were me, I'd inform them that: "I look forward to the day when thousands of cops are pointlessly chasing after calm and peaceful armed citizens and wasting hundreds of thousands of departmental dollars in fuitless efforts to catch minor slips by lawful OC'ers. Maybe you should start issuing CCW permits to folks who are lawfully allowed to posess them and you wouldn't get these calls. Until then, have fun chasing after an animal of your own creation!"

    But, I don't blame you for not adding the last part.
    I had a conversation with the Watch Commander by phone and basicaly told him what you posted. He agreed with me that the dispatchers need to get more info and he would remind his deputies of the D.A.'s memo.

    I informed him of the video by a witness, but didn't mention that I was the witness.
    Last edited by yelohamr; 08-14-2010 at 09:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    old guy with a gun on his hip needs 5 cops to verify he's not a criminal? what did they think? you were going to rob social security?
    Back in the old days, we open carried sticks and were never checked.

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