Man With A Gun At Big Lots...

...turns out it was me. The employees are used to seeing me UOC, it must have been a customer that called the SDSO.

After leaving the store I was approached by 3 deputies, with guns drawn. None pointed a weapon at me, even the one with an AR.

My handgun and 2 full mags were removed from me. I mentioned to the senior deputy that this was the first time I had ever been "E" checked and she asked, "What's that?". I told her I was referring to 12031(e). Her reply was, "Are you from around here?" I told her I found that section of the CA Penal Code in 1988 and this was the first time I had been checked.

I was asked for I.D. and told her that California isn't a stop and I.D. state, but since I'm not doing anything illegal, I don't have a problem with it.

While my I.D. was being looked at, another deputy was looking for the serial number on my pistol. He couldn't find it, because it's covered by the laser sight. He just asked if it was registered to me.

No one screwed up and I would have conducted the stop the same way.

I could have done without the lecture about all of the officers (5 total) that had to respond because of me. When asked why I open carry, I told them, "For my safety and because I don't intend on being the next senior citizen crime victim."

Got my gun and ammo back, re-holstered and went to Stater Brothers, across the parking lot.

The whole thing is on video. I have video sunglasses.

Too bad they didn't tell the person from Namby Pamby land, that called, to grow a set.

It sounds like the Vista dispatcher needs a little training. 5 deputies may be a record :lol:

Nice little violation of your 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights, but you don't see anything wrong with it? And you would have done the same...gun drawn but not pointed is now OK? What am I missing here? Oh, and Thesius didn't do anything wrong either, but because they had his ID he lost his gun rights for 10 years.

ETA: I like what a Colorado resident is doing about his police encounter when they violated his rights for sitting on a park bench with a holstered gun. Listen to Dave Champion's discussion in his August 3rd archive about citizen Bill Miller.

They were on a call, MWAG. No where near a school zone. I've been on the same type calls, except those didn't involve an open carry incident.
Having been in law enforcement, I know how the game is played. I know they were doing their job, nothing more.

I'm fine with it because they didn't point at ME. I would have.

If you don't dress like a banger or Joe **** the rag man, things go a lot smoother.

All of the deputies knew it was a BS call, but had to go through the motions for the spectators. The whole thing last 9 minutes, including shooting the breeze with them.

coolusername2007 said:

nice little violation of your 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights, but you don't see anything wrong with it? And you would have done the same...gun drawn but not pointed is now ok? What am i missing here? Oh, and thesius didn't do anything wrong either, but because they had his id he lost his gun rights for 10 years.

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this! Wtf!

Guns drawn or even a show of force can be considered a de facto arrest.

http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/45

yelohamr said:

They were on a call, MWAG. No where near a school zone. I've been on the same type calls, except those didn't involve an open carry incident.
Having been in law enforcement, I know how the game is played. I know they were doing their job, nothing more.

I'm fine with it because they didn't point at ME. I would have.

If you don't dress like a banger or Joe **** the rag man, things go a lot smoother.

All of the deputies knew it was a BS call, but had to go through the motions for the spectators. The whole thing last 9 minutes, including shooting the breeze with them.

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I know you were in law enforcement, and you seem to be just fine with their actions. That's my point. Drawing guns on a law abiding citizen for exercising their rights is not the right way to handle this. Especially at a time when there are highly publicized events regarding the fight to save our OC rights in this state and in a post McDonald PRK.

The old adage of "I have nothing to hide, so I will cooperate" is no longer a valid viewpoint. We live in a state and in a time when the anti-gun government agents will stop at nothing to make their example of any law abiding citizen they choose to scare the hell out of everyone else who dares to exercise their civil liberties.

I, for one, have everything to hide, and to protect, and its for me to know and for them to keep on wondering what it is.

Josey Wales said:

this! Wtf!

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Which part of my post did you not understand? Do you not see how his rights were violated? If so, then I suspect you don't fully appreciate the full force of one's constitutionally protected rights.

post the video please

Gundude said:

It sounds like the Vista dispatcher needs a little training. 5 deputies may be a record :lol:

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I set the record at five back in July 2008. Two with weapons pointed at me as I did the backward perp walk.

However, I believe the record is far more than 5. Did you read about the LA incident? They closed down the street and dispatched a frickin' helicopter.

im sorry to hear that you FAIL!

volunteering your ID should never be done,, 5th A
schooling them on the 12031E law, why?, so they dont actually violate your 4th A rights?
AOK to draw down on you.

ETA;; Im already sorry, and apologize for my rude response.

but the points i made are important, and need to be understood.

We might say 'oop you messed up there, ah you gave in there', but we all know the drill if we've been stopped.

I'm sorry to hear about your run-in yelo, but I'm glad you are ok.

I'll post the video later, the audio is choppy, so I edited it out on the copy. Most of the stop was me talking to a deputy about my ammo and where I was a cop. None of them had been born yet when I was in the academy.
The female deputy was very professional and knew her lecture was going in one ear and out the other. She asked why I had an empty magazine in my weapon and I told her if I had a loaded one in it I'd get arrested. The empty one was to keep bugs out.
When I told her as long as it was still legal to do so, I was going to continue to open carry. She guaranteed me that I would probably be stopped again.
I won't lose any sleep over it.

+1 to everything coolusername2007 has said here. Guns drawn for practicing a fundamental right is definitely a losing situation.

It should also be noted that after Theseus' stop he would have declared that he was also being nothing wrong and was nowhere near a school zone. He had multiple layers of legal protection (on private property, didn't offer his ID, wasn't aware that the school existed), but he still was found guilty.

Wow, Yelohamr, 22yrs to bust your cherry? What a square, LOL! JK man. Hope it's MORE than 22yrs till you get checked again!

I do not really like how this went.

The whole "guns drawn" thing is getting looked into, actually...

bigtoe416 said:

It should also be noted that after Theseus' stop he would have declared that he was also being nothing wrong and was nowhere near a school zone. He had multiple layers of legal protection (on private property, didn't offer his ID, wasn't aware that the school existed), but he still was found guilty.

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Isn't Theseus filed a appealing?

old guy with a gun on his hip needs 5 cops to verify he's not a criminal? what did they think? you were going to rob social security?

coolusername2007 said:

Which part of my post did you not understand? Do you not see how his rights were violated? If so, then I suspect you don't fully appreciate the full force of one's constitutionally protected rights.

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I was agreeing with you!

yelohamr said:

No one screwed up and I would have conducted the stop the same way. .

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My opinion differs from yours, because I believe that any politicians who voted for or allow to stand any law against loaded carry, or any other law directly contradictory to the bill of rights like 12031, should face treason charges. Furthermore, any police officers who uphold these laws should at LEAST be fired for failing to obey the oath they took when they were hired.

As it stands now, I truly don't believe California can be considered part of the united states, because both the government of the state and its people at large neither have nor want the constitution enforced.