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Thread: San Bernardino County Sheriff

  1. #1
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    San Bernardino County Sheriff

    Hi,

    I live in San Bernardino county and was wondering has anyone on here had a run in with a sheriff. If so what was the out come, what did you gather on their opinion of UOC.

  2. #2
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    We've had meet ups in cities that contract with the Sheriff's Dept for police services, and they were notified of the events beforehand and they chose not to interact with us. After a meet that we did at Bass Pro Shops in Rancho Cucamonga they said that they cruised by and saw us but they did not contact us.
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    That sounds like if you're not doing anything wrong, they're not interested in talking to you.

    We're all on the same page.

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    OC in Ontario, CA

    I live in Ontario near Moutnain and Mission. I have been OCing the past week. Since I work 2nd shift and i get home around mid-night, I usually walk my dog around that time and talk my 9mm with me. I usually give a courtesy call to the shift commander and take his name to use incase I come in contact with a LEO. So for no one has pulled me over and I usually see them speeding by. I am usually alone but I always have my phone onthe camera function ready to record in case I am detained. I would rather join or get a group going that wants to OC in the IE. Anyone??

  5. #5
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    I live in Ontario near Moutnain and Mission. I have been OCing the past week. Since I work 2nd shift and i get home around mid-night, I usually walk my dog around that time and talk my 9mm with me. I usually give a courtesy call to the shift commander and take his name to use incase I come in contact with a LEO. So for no one has pulled me over and I usually see them speeding by. I am usually alone but I always have my phone onthe camera function ready to record in case I am detained. I would rather join or get a group going that wants to OC in the IE. Anyone??
    So imagine being out with your dog, a LEO rolls up on a man with a gun call. Then he sees you reaching for something that is dark shiny and looks like a gun. He shoots you. He finds out you really do have a gun. He's off the hook and you're severly injured or dead.

    The moral of this story is never reach for anything when the law rolls up. Every recording device you have should already be on and recording. The moment an LEO rolls up is NOT the time to be reaching for anything...especially if its after sundown.

    Carry on.

  6. #6
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    Every recording device you have should already be on and recording. The moment an LEO rolls up is NOT the time to be reaching for anything...especially if its after sundown.
    Werd...
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    Agreed

    So far I have always kept my phone in my hand and I keep tapping the screen so it won’t go into sleep mode. But that is really awkward and I do see your point of being dangerous. I looked on eBay for recording devices you can hang on your neck with a lanyard or something. I will probably wait until I get one before I continue. Are there any you recommend? What is the first thing I should do if I get pulled over? I'm not the pissed off defensive type but I'm kind of worried they might be....

    I checked on google maps to make sure there are no schools within 1000' of where I will by walking. Is that reliable?

    At first I would purposely leave my ID at home so I could truthfully say I have none. But today I brought it with me along with my HSC just in case.(this might mean the difference between going on my way or being detained a few hours while they verify my identity) I also divulged more info than normal when I gave my courtesy call to the non emergency number. The dispatcher was confused at the notion of open carrying and put me on hold to verify the legality of doing so. She came back on the line and told me she had spoken to her co-worker and she told her about me. At that point she seemed a bit irritated and told me she had informed the units about my presence.(seems like someone got educated because of my call). I walked my dog for about 45 minutes. It was earlier that usual so much more traffic was around. I noticed many stares from people walking and car passengers but no LEO interaction. That is what I wanted. It seems that Ontario PD is not bothering with OC'ers and can walk around with peace of mind. I know it’s too early to tell but by calling ahead I think you can kind of educate and play it a bit safer if you will be alone and in the dark.

    It may also be that I have not been at this for too long and sure enough I will get stopped and felony prone checked, roughed up and then released. Either way I feel confident with the law on my side and I look to my fellow OC'ers for advice and I do appreciate!

  8. #8
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    But today I brought it with me along with my HSC just in case.
    Planning to purchase a handgun while you're out on your UOC walk? The HSC is good for absolutely nothing except to purchase, or to borrow, a handgun. You don't need it for any other purpose, and you are under no obligation to renew it after 5 years unless you want to purchase another handgun. It isn't a license to own, possess, or carry a handgun. California has no licensing scheme to own any gun except certain NFA firearms.
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  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    I checked on google maps to make sure there are no schools within 1000' of where I will by walking. Is that reliable?
    It's generally reliable. I wouldn't say it's 100% reliable though (is anything?).

    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    At first I would purposely leave my ID at home so I could truthfully say I have none. But today I brought it with me along with my HSC just in case.(this might mean the difference between going on my way or being detained a few hours while they verify my identity) I also divulged more info than normal when I gave my courtesy call to the non emergency number.
    You really shouldn't carry ID on you. Look at Theseus' case. He was obeying the law entirely, but since he had his ID on him the police that stopped and illegally searched him had his name and address, which they later used to serve him with charges of being within 1000' of a school. He lost (despite not violating the law). He could have prevented all of that if he didn't carry ID. You have to remain vigilant and consistent. We generally all recommend the same things because somebody has not done them and has been taken advantage of in some manner.

    I'd also recommend not informing your police department of your lawful activities because it could be used against you later. Say you call and say you'll be walking your dog around a certain portion of town. The dispatcher looks and sees that portion of town is covered in schools, so she sends a cop out to pick you up. During your trial that recorded audio could be played as evidence against you. Is it possible that there's a K-12 school that you don't know about somewhere within 1000' of where you are walking? If the answer is anything other than, "it is impossible that that is the case" then you shouldn't carry any ID and you shouldn't be calling the police and you should have a audio recorder going at all times.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Primary Audio Recorder I use is:
    Olympus ws-400s recorder its less than $100 most places, lanyard around neck centered on sternum, practically invisible and missed on searches (if you have a loose fitting button down shirt.) is on record from moment I leave house. (17+ hours record time) AAA battery.

    Primary Video Recorder I use is:
    Spy Pen 4 gb. (they come in 8 gb now) carried on chest pocket, 90 minute record time usually push play when I first see LE from a distance or get the feeling they are near. Or know I wont be out longer than 90 minutes. (if I see LE, I like to raise my right hand to wave hello and wave them over while left hand goes to chest pocket to activate camera. From their point of view my hands are visible and safer than at my side.)

    Back up audio recorder: Iphone, set auto lock feature to 1 minute, coded lock to access phone. press play on memo recording, usually carry it by hand or in shirt pocket, activate it when I know LE is approaching, once it locks (after 60 seconds) you cant turn it off without the code, also fiddling with a phone in your weapon hand (with bright yellow case) while weapon is visible on your hip telegraphs your hands are occupied and a much further reach for weapon. If LE approaches in an excited state and aggressive I skip Iphone until its safe to do so. I try and use the Iphone as the "Distractor" for recording devices, I want LE especially BAD LE to see and think "thats" the device they have to disable so they focus on it and not the other 2 devices.

    I have had almost exclusively good interactions with LE, and have not needed to save any tape (yet), the only reason I carry and use all of those recording devices is for that one encounter that may someday happen with the worst of worst LE that will abuse my rights, property, endanger my life, and try to get away with it by using his authority of the badge as cover.

    For whats it worth...
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  11. #11
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post

    I'd also recommend not informing your police department of your lawful activities because it could be used against you later. Say you call and say you'll be walking your dog around a certain portion of town. The dispatcher looks and sees that portion of town is covered in schools, so she sends a cop out to pick you up. During your trial that recorded audio could be played as evidence against you. Is it possible that there's a K-12 school that you don't know about somewhere within 1000' of where you are walking? If the answer is anything other than, "it is impossible that that is the case" then you shouldn't carry any ID and you shouldn't be calling the police and you should have a audio recorder going at all times.
    I could not AGREE more!

    Police are not giving you permission to do something completely lawful. Police have a job to enforce LAWS (some unjust). You should NEVER talk to police Ever! See why bellow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    You may feel like you are doing the right thing but nothing good can come from it. We (most) are not anti police. But we understand that anything you say to police can ONLY be used against you in court. The above vid is long but worth every penny.

    If you ever find yourself in a situation that you can not handle and have time to WAIT for police they may be able to help.

    Carry on.

    PS search flex your rights on youtube. educate yourself on how to stand up to cops.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

  12. #12
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Oh, and never ever carry ID when UOC. In California, not a stop and Identify State, do not give the bad (or any) LE your Info if its not required, they want it to see if you have any priors to get you on, it is part of their "fishing" expedition to find something, anything to stick to you. In fact I replace all cards of ID from my wallet with all the business cards of senior officers I have spoken to regarding department policies and training and laws on UOC.

    If you have not done that yet I HIGHLY recommend contacting local LE and ask to speak with your local Seargent, Lieutenent, Captain, and Chief with questions you have about UOC. Bring a list of questions about Penal Codes, case laws, training bulletins, really test there knowledge. And at the same time instruct them of whats legal and illegal, and get their business cards, ask them to sign it, write their emails or info on it

    that lets any investigating LE in the field trying to arrest you know you have spoken with them...

    Nothing better than a bad cop pulling your wallet out and finding all of his supervisors business cards, to soften their mood.
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  13. #13
    kittyhawk63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    ... (if I see LE, I like to raise my right hand to wave hello and wave them over while left hand goes to chest pocket to activate camera. From their point of view my hands are visible and safer than at my side.)
    Firemark,
    I am wondering why you would "wave" an LEO over to you. Can you explain if that is exactly what you meant?

  14. #14
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittyhawk63 View Post
    Firemark,
    I am wondering why you would "wave" an LEO over to you. Can you explain if that is exactly what you meant?
    Sure, you have to imagine what it is like to be LE. Most of their day is filled with calls to go and deal with people complaining, angry, and dealing with possible criminals, all of which are either lying or manipulating the truth to get what they want, or get out of trouble. Many people today have issues with authority, and as such react negatively and tend to take out their frustrations on LE especially in a verbal manner. So thats just a small inkling of the mindset they have to be in and deal with when interacting with the public. Now throw on top of that a MWAG call.

    First, the idea that they may be encountering an unknwon situation with a possible "crazy" person with a firearm planning to do who knows what, could put them into a state of excited stimualtion and/or fear. That is what they have been trained to believe and do. Then they might think it could be an UOC'r then they could think "great, another brow beating by a rude person who thinks he knows the law and guns, is going to make me look stupid." Or maybe they have yet to encounter a UOC, or maybe the first time was nothing but attitude and disrespect, or at least the story from a coworker. So before they even show up, you can see they can be in one of many bad moods or preconcieved notions all of which are negative. Throw on top of that they may know its going to be recorded, so even more stress.

    Also, if a call was made, and the officer(s) were sent to investigate, Dispatch will try and get as much info about description and may or may not describe activity or demeanor of UOC'r, or they may but the officers just arent listening. So they already know what your wearing and what you look like, so trying to blend in and be unobtrusive is really futile. Also officers pick up on non verbal cues so people that turn away or move in a way that is like...
    "Cops!! Quick hide!!! or Act normal..."
    LE are going to perceive that as "What are you hiding...criminal?"

    So this brings me to why I wave a LE officer over. If im in a place that the arrival of LE is not usual or normal, and im carrying, and notice maybe some people earlier looked at me in a funny or nervous way, and avoid me, im going to assume LE is their FOR ME! No reason to pretend, thats just silly. So by making eye contact and communicating immediately it sends a few messages.

    1) Im not afraid, or intimidated, im not hiding or trying to escape. Not the behavior of a criminal.
    2) Situational awareness---LE trys to enter a potentially unsafe situation in an inconspicuous and unobtrusive manner to observe first then act. By ID'ing them immediately you are demonstrating you have heightend situational awareness, and you know LE is on scene. So any cat and mouse sneaking around is out of the question. You both know each other are there. You're not surprised by their arrival, and your response to it is calmness.
    3) Invitation---by inviting them over, by waving over or pointing to yourself you are initiating the contact in a non aggressive manner, they may or may not realize your the one they are here to investigate, they could mistake you for the reporting party, (which is what people that call 911 and expect LE arrival to do, is make contact.)
    4) Safety---by waving and using your hand you arent gripping or holding your weapon, another non verbal communication your trying to show your not trying to be a threat.

    The LE will approach with many preconcieved notions in their head, both good and bad, we cant control for all for them, we can only display by behavior our intentions. With the interaction verbally, I tend to give the first 30 seconds-1 minute of interaction with LE, a tough skin approach, I let the minor insults and mild abrasive condescending comments just roll of the back, in many cases its just the officer getting thru their already programmed responses and biased opinions. I try to be polite, cordial, friendly, and helpful. It an attempt to de-escalate the situation.

    Then if appropriate I THANK them for being professional and treating me with respect, usually when they return my weapon. This is very important for those that are actually being polite and friendly it reinforces good behavior, and for those who may be on the fence, somewhat rude and a little pushy, it gives them notice that your trying to be friendly helpful and LAWFUL and maybe they might want to rethink their approach cause they are actually the ones acting badly infringing on rights and the law. And hopefully witnesses are watching.

    For those officers who are just going to break the law and trample your rights its just going to happen most likely anyways. But getting it recorded that your being civil, polite, and helpful, and they are being gestapo like lends strong argument to any court case that may come from it to prove your point and win your argument.

    Just remember the most likely law breaker in an encounter with LE and a UOC'r is going to be the one who is the least cordial and civil.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  15. #15
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    Sure, you have to imagine what it is like to be LE. Most of their day is filled with calls to go and deal with people complaining, angry, and dealing with possible criminals, all of which are either lying or manipulating the truth to get what they want, or get out of trouble. Many people today have issues with authority, and as such react negatively and tend to take out their frustrations on LE especially in a verbal manner. So thats just a small inkling of the mindset they have to be in and deal with when interacting with the public. Now throw on top of that a MWAG call.

    First, the idea that they may be encountering an unknwon situation with a possible "crazy" person with a firearm planning to do who knows what, could put them into a state of excited stimualtion and/or fear. That is what they have been trained to believe and do. Then they might think it could be an UOC'r then they could think "great, another brow beating by a rude person who thinks he knows the law and guns, is going to make me look stupid." Or maybe they have yet to encounter a UOC, or maybe the first time was nothing but attitude and disrespect, or at least the story from a coworker. So before they even show up, you can see they can be in one of many bad moods or preconcieved notions all of which are negative. Throw on top of that they may know its going to be recorded, so even more stress.

    Also, if a call was made, and the officer(s) were sent to investigate, Dispatch will try and get as much info about description and may or may not describe activity or demeanor of UOC'r, or they may but the officers just arent listening. So they already know what your wearing and what you look like, so trying to blend in and be unobtrusive is really futile. Also officers pick up on non verbal cues so people that turn away or move in a way that is like...
    "Cops!! Quick hide!!! or Act normal..."
    LE are going to perceive that as "What are you hiding...criminal?"

    So this brings me to why I wave a LE officer over. If im in a place that the arrival of LE is not usual or normal, and im carrying, and notice maybe some people earlier looked at me in a funny or nervous way, and avoid me, im going to assume LE is their FOR ME! No reason to pretend, thats just silly. So by making eye contact and communicating immediately it sends a few messages.

    1) Im not afraid, or intimidated, im not hiding or trying to escape. Not the behavior of a criminal.
    2) Situational awareness---LE trys to enter a potentially unsafe situation in an inconspicuous and unobtrusive manner to observe first then act. By ID'ing them immediately you are demonstrating you have heightend situational awareness, and you know LE is on scene. So any cat and mouse sneaking around is out of the question. You both know each other are there. You're not surprised by their arrival, and your response to it is calmness.
    3) Invitation---by inviting them over, by waving over or pointing to yourself you are initiating the contact in a non aggressive manner, they may or may not realize your the one they are here to investigate, they could mistake you for the reporting party, (which is what people that call 911 and expect LE arrival to do, is make contact.)
    4) Safety---by waving and using your hand you arent gripping or holding your weapon, another non verbal communication your trying to show your not trying to be a threat.

    The LE will approach with many preconcieved notions in their head, both good and bad, we cant control for all for them, we can only display by behavior our intentions. With the interaction verbally, I tend to give the first 30 seconds-1 minute of interaction with LE, a tough skin approach, I let the minor insults and mild abrasive condescending comments just roll of the back, in many cases its just the officer getting thru their already programmed responses and biased opinions. I try to be polite, cordial, friendly, and helpful. It an attempt to de-escalate the situation.

    Then if appropriate I THANK them for being professional and treating me with respect, usually when they return my weapon. This is very important for those that are actually being polite and friendly it reinforces good behavior, and for those who may be on the fence, somewhat rude and a little pushy, it gives them notice that your trying to be friendly helpful and LAWFUL and maybe they might want to rethink their approach cause they are actually the ones acting badly infringing on rights and the law. And hopefully witnesses are watching.

    For those officers who are just going to break the law and trample your rights its just going to happen most likely anyways. But getting it recorded that your being civil, polite, and helpful, and they are being gestapo like lends strong argument to any court case that may come from it to prove your point and win your argument.

    Just remember the most likely law breaker in an encounter with LE and a UOC'r is going to be the one who is the least cordial and civil.
    WoW lots of thinking and assuming IMO.

    For me I just obey the laws I know (even unjust laws) and expect NO police interaction. When for some reason police make contact I let them know real fast I do not consent to the police contact. It is not my job to make them feel any safer or rest thier nerves. I think they should stay alert and not let their gaurd down. At the same time they need to be respectful and aware of peoples rights.

    Not and easy job for sure. They choose it not me. Most important roll IMO is to protect our rights. Not to trample them while looking for the criminal.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    WoW lots of thinking and assuming IMO.

    For me I just obey the laws I know (even unjust laws) and expect NO police interaction. When for some reason police make contact I let them know real fast I do not consent to the police contact. It is not my job to make them feel any safer or rest thier nerves. I think they should stay alert and not let their gaurd down. At the same time they need to be respectful and aware of peoples rights.

    Not and easy job for sure. They choose it not me. Most important roll IMO is to protect our rights. Not to trample them while looking for the criminal.
    Just different perspective, and lots of personal experience, father was a police officer (30+ years), and I work closely along side LE for the past 20 years. Just because they have a tough job, and they chose it and not you, doesnt mean you get a free ticket to dehumanize them. Since you think their most important roll is to protect our rights and not trample them, then I have to ask whats YOUR role being a Law abiding citizen with regard to interacting and dealing with LE?? Seems you demand quite alot from them and you dont care to worry about another human beings (LE) safety and concerns.
    Maybe you should try to imagine yourself walking in their shoes for a mile or so...
    If people took it as part of their job to help LE it might be better for all of us.
    IMO
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Hey do you have the group going im interested

    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    I live in Ontario near Moutnain and Mission. I have been OCing the past week. Since I work 2nd shift and i get home around mid-night, I usually walk my dog around that time and talk my 9mm with me. I usually give a courtesy call to the shift commander and take his name to use incase I come in contact with a LEO. So for no one has pulled me over and I usually see them speeding by. I am usually alone but I always have my phone onthe camera function ready to record in case I am detained. I would rather join or get a group going that wants to OC in the IE. Anyone??
    Hey do you have the group going Im interested I live in Fontana lmelecio@roadrunner.com

  18. #18
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    http://www.adorama.com/IOMVN6000.htm...point0Product1

    I use this recorder. Its only $25 shipped. Can record 40 hours in HQ mode or 200 hours in EP. It's small enough so that only the top part with the microphone sticks out of my watch pocket. It's black so it doesn't draw any attention to it. Has a lock button so you don't accidentally press any buttons. Had index button so you can mark after a LEO encounter so you can find it easily. Has 5 separate folders that can hold 100 files each.
    Last edited by Born2Lose; 01-10-2011 at 12:33 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Still Carrying

    Just a quick update...I was UOC'ing up until the rain came, then the Holidays gave me less time to go for a walk with my dog.

    Before I took a break I had some interesting contacts with LEO's. I was NOT carrying at the time, they were taking their break at the corner 7-eleven.

    I approached them and asked them if knew of the open carry law, and what they thought of it. My approach was straight forward and sincere.

    The older LEO then replied to me: "Sooo you’re the guy who calls us all the time that you going to open carry"

    I told that I did, for my safety.

    Then the younger LEO jumped in and said that he really appreciated the call and that all the units get the message on their laptops. The older LEO then described my drop down holster, color of my dog, and areas I walk.

    I was totally surprised...in a good way! The Ontario PD knew where I was they have seen me many times now since then. I carry in the 7-Eleven and the cashiers know me. They say they feel safer when I’m there. I recommended that they get something concealed,

    But the point is the Ontario PD doesn’t care if I open carry or not. They recognize it as a right. I know it sounds like putting your head in the lion's mouth, but you'll be surprised to see how many LEO's would appreciate the heads up. I also found that many times I would give a “courtesy call” and the dispatcher would learn about the open carry law for the first time just by me calling. They would ask me If was a police officer, I would say “no just a civilian walking my dog, carrying my 9mm unloaded and magazines at the ready”. Then I would hear them say “I don’t think you can do that”, please hold” A few moments later they would come back, thank me and tell me that they let the officers know.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloomington-trading View Post
    Hey do you have the group going Im interested I live in Fontana lmelecio@roadrunner.com
    Was still going solo but looking to expand and organize I'll email you....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    http://www.adorama.com/IOMVN6000.htm...point0Product1

    I use this recorder. Its only $25 shipped. Can record 40 hours in HQ mode or 200 hours in EP. It's small enough so that only the top part with the microphone sticks out of my watch pocket. It's black so it doesn't draw any attention to it. Has a lock button so you don't accidentally press any buttons. Had index button so you can mark after a LEO encounter so you can find it easily. Has 5 separate folders that can hold 100 files each.
    It has great reviews but no capability to transfer to PC.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    It has great reviews but no capability to transfer to PC.
    I already have a male/male cord for my mp3 player. I just have to plug it in and record it over to my PC. Not a big deal since i'll only be doing it if there's a problem.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    I already have a male/male cord for my mp3 player. I just have to plug it in and record it over to my PC. Not a big deal since i'll only be doing it if there's a problem.
    Good point. What software/application would you record on to? If you can do that this would make it a definite purchase for me.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokenride View Post
    Good point. What software/application would you record on to? If you can do that this would make it a definite purchase for me.
    http://www.fridgesoft.de/harddiskogg.php
    Open source and will capture any sound from any source on your PC. You can download the a free codec (they show you how) and you can save it as mp3.
    Best of all no admin rights required so i can use it on my work laptop.

    EDIT: Just did a quick test and it works perfect. Sound quality is just like if i transfered it to my PC.
    Last edited by Born2Lose; 01-10-2011 at 10:07 PM.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  25. #25
    Regular Member Ruiner.NIN's Avatar
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    FYI, This past weekend I noticed that they were selling a spy pen at the Fry's in San Diego.

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