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Thread: Why we should support a "Legal Defense Fund" & what we risk if we do not.

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Why we should support a "Legal Defense Fund" & what we risk if we do not.

    Let me preface this post by saying: the majority of police are honest hard working individuals. I have several friends that are retired LEO's. This post is in no way meant to be ANTI-LEO. From speaking with my friends who frequent the local F.O.P. lodges in the area, there is a great interest in the Open Carry movement in Michigan. Many officers support us. There are some who do not. They state lack of training etc..., but when prodded for further information these individuals often admit that they don't like Open Carry because it reflects poorly on their job performance in their minds. These same individuals also feel that Open Carry has the potential to lessen their "job security" - "if everyone can protect themselves, then who needs a police force?". These Anti-OC officers make no effort to hide the fact that they will, and do at every opportunity, try to "squash" Open Carriers. They understand that if they can put the fear of GOD into enough people that even though OC is a legal practice, they may be able to stop it in its tracks now before it becomes too widespread to do so later on.

    What's at stake if we do not support legal action against rouge police officers and departments? These individuals watch sites like this one regularly. They monitor support, or for that matter lack of it. If we allow these misguided officers to believe we can not even raise a puny $2,500 to start a law suit, then look out! It will be open season on law abiding citizens by them.

    http://www.michiganopencarry.org/pag...man-legal-fund
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-12-2010 at 01:20 PM. Reason: add link

  2. #2
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    100% correct

    Please give what you can everyone!

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    The average person and those on fixed or low income,have the same right to keep and bear arms,but do not have the money it takes to hire a lawyer and get justice.This case is about the principles of our constitutional freedoms and one departments ignoring those rights after being publicly notified a year prior to this incident.It's that simple!It's a shame that someone who is poor may not be able to pay the $200 plus to get a CPL,or who do not know they can OC to defend their very lives! IMO,GOD GAVE ME LIFE and in MI's ARTICLE 1 SEC 6 of our constitution,and the 2A of the U.S constitution STATE OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS to PROTECT THE LIFE GOD GAVE US! I may be poor,but I have many good, law abiding people who are backing me now and will back others in the future! This is OUR FIGHT against those who violate our FREEDOMS,which are the basis of all laws in the GREATEST NATION IN HISTORY! GOD BLESS YOU AND THIS NATION!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  4. #4
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    The average person and those on fixed or low income,have the same right to keep and bear arms,but do not have the money it takes to hire a lawyer and get justice.This case is about the principles of our constitutional freedoms and one departments ignoring those rights after being publicly notified a year prior to this incident.It's that simple!It's a shame that someone who is poor may not be able to pay the $200 plus to get a CPL,or who do not know they can OC to defend their very lives! IMO,GOD GAVE ME LIFE and in MI's ARTICLE 1 SEC 6 of our constitution,and the 2A of the U.S constitution STATE OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS to PROTECT THE LIFE GOD GAVE US! I may be poor,but I have many good, law abiding people who are backing me now and will back others in the future! This is OUR FIGHT against those who violate our FREEDOMS,which are the basis of all laws in the GREATEST NATION IN HISTORY! GOD BLESS YOU AND THIS NATION!
    AMEN! Even the ACLU has to get donations to effectively fight some of the other "Bill of Rights" issues (no agreement w/ them implied). I think we need to show the governmental representatives of Michigan that we are done with the abuse that firearm owners have endured over the years. By putting our funds towards those court cases which are particularly strong (such as hamanegss'), we put others on notice that we will not stand for this.

    Do you think that without the MCGRO v Ferndale Case that we would have the lackey's in RO so concerned about violating our rights? I don't think so. Perhaps someday the success of this case can be used to further the cause for our sons and daughters.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 08-12-2010 at 07:22 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    We debate a lot of different OC issues here on OCDO. Many times it is in regards to OC in PFZ's with CPL. Often people will say, "We need case law." Well how does case law happen? Lawsuits. Simple as that. If we help a brother in arms who is taking his fight to the courts, we help ourselves. Let's all give, do not think your $5 donation is not enough to make a difference. Give what you can, we will all be better for it when the verdict is read and we have the case law we all need so badly.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I also believe we are to "put our money where our RIGHTS are". This is why I jumped on the chance to donate.

    Please create a thread "up forum" at the national level to request assistance!

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    I understand that times are tough for many people. Any money donated would be appreciated and helps all of us.


    Even if it's only five or ten dollars. It adds up.

    One of the "godfather's of open carry" if you will, told me that he is very impressed with how dedicated, organized, professional, and proactive the open carry crowd is in Michigan. It's very similar to Washington's crowd.

    I have long told people that for a long time that OC'ing in PFZ is the harder challenge. I guarantee you that many cops will arrest people for OC'ing in a bar or hospital, even if they have a CPL.

    The law is not hard to understand, if members of the legal community (government side) are too stupid to understand the differences between PFZ's (28.425o) and Firearm Free Zones (234d) then they need to be sued and/or fired from their positions. It's not hard, it just involves juggling two different blocks of thought.. I know for many people it is.

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    I don't have a checking account, or credit cards, but even though I'm broke, I have 10$ cash that I would like to give to help out. How do I get it to where it needs to go?

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I don't have a checking account, or credit cards, but even though I'm broke, I have 10$ cash that I would like to give to help out. How do I get it to where it needs to go?
    Stainless if you're sure (I know things are pretty tight for you right now) send it to:


    Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

    Attention: Jeff Haman Legal Fund

    29744 Amy Lane

    Chesterfield, MI 48047

  10. #10
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    Thanks G9, I will send it out tomorrow.

  11. #11
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    thanks for the inspiration,, and the address...

    im sending 20 bucks to help get some Case Law,
    and some justice for Jeff.
    standing up for your rights in Michigan,,, stands up for our rights, everywhere else!

    Virginia,, Washington,, Michigan, are 1,2 and 3 in posts, threads, and activity on OCDO.
    this sunday is our big yearly event, Willow lake, top sticky in our state forum,
    you guys are all invited, right by the airport, how convenient is that.

    quote;
    One of the "godfather's of open carry" if you will, told me that he is very impressed with how dedicated, organized, professional, and proactive the open carry crowd is in Michigan. It's very similar to Washington's crowd. end


    Best regards and good luck, ive been following since the beginning, and ill follow till the end.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    im sending 20 bucks to help get some Case Law,
    and some justice for Jeff.
    standing up for your rights in Michigan,,, stands up for our rights, everywhere else!

    Virginia,, Washington,, Michigan, are 1,2 and 3 in posts, threads, and activity on OCDO.
    this sunday is our big yearly event, Willow lake, top sticky in our state forum,
    you guys are all invited, right by the airport, how convenient is that.

    quote;
    One of the "godfather's of open carry" if you will, told me that he is very impressed with how dedicated, organized, professional, and proactive the open carry crowd is in Michigan. It's very similar to Washington's crowd. end


    Best regards and good luck, ive been following since the beginning, and ill follow till the end.
    Thanks Sir! hope your event goes well. I wish I could be there.

    - God bless you all.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Fund mentioned in the Free Press. Hope we make our goal on this or we will become the laughing stock of the Anti's!

    http://www.freep.com/article/2010081...-metro-Detroit

  14. #14
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Fund mentioned in the Free Press. Hope we make our goal on this or we will become the laughing stock of the Anti's!

    http://www.freep.com/article/2010081...-metro-Detroit
    I will be working with Norb Franz(MacombDaily) on my story.He has been in the wings at my request since my incident,and covered our 08' picnic(front page twice)with journalistic integrety.As soon as the suit is filed I will be working with him,for the citizens of Warren and the state.Thank You Guys and God Bless! Jeff Haman.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    We debate a lot of different OC issues here on OCDO. Many times it is in regards to OC in PFZ's with CPL. Often people will say, "We need case law." Well how does case law happen? Lawsuits. Simple as that. If we help a brother in arms who is taking his fight to the courts, we help ourselves. Let's all give, do not think your $5 donation is not enough to make a difference. Give what you can, we will all be better for it when the verdict is read and we have the case law we all need so badly.
    i hope this still stands,

  16. #16
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    i hope this still stands,
    It stands and will keep standing,because we're all in this together Brother!Fret Not!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  17. #17
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    But I thought MOC turned its back on this guy? Did they change thier minds?
    Last edited by stainless1911; 10-09-2011 at 06:41 AM.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Arrow

    I don't know one way or the other Stainless, but true or not, MOC is not the be-all end-all of your personal decision to help a brother in need.

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    True, but right now, rvd really doesnt know what to do next, and they can be of assistance to him in this. Its not a pure OC issue, but it is a blood relative.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    true, but right now, rvd really doesnt know what to do next, and they can be of assistance to him in this. Its not a pure oc issue, but it is a blood relative.
    *pm sent*

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    But I thought MOC turned its back on this guy? Did they change thier minds?
    Turned our back on what guy? Man this must be rumor night on OCDO!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  22. #22
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    rvd4now with his quest for OC in his school, and subsequent empty holster/ rights violated on sooo many levels controversy.

  23. #23
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    rvd4now with his quest for OC in his school, and subsequent empty holster/ rights violated on sooo many levels controversy.
    Just to be VERY clear.....

    MOC CAN'T BACK EVERY COURT CASE THAT COMES ALONG.

    MOC is already heading up a very important court case that could effect everyone.

    rvd4now wasn't even OC'ing.

    A wise man knows when to pick a fight and when to walk away so that he may fight another day.

    Stainless....don't start ragging on MOC for not handing this guy a wad of cash so he can fight his own personal little war, especially when you don't even have any skin in the game.

  24. #24
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    On top of that....It's not a "school", it's a fricken college and he's supposed to be going there to learn, not to be a political activist on someone elses dime.

  25. #25
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    political activism in Americas colleges are inseparable.

    I didnt expect MOC to just go ahead and foot the bill here, but I dont expect them to do nothing either. MOC wanted to be a premier gun rights .org, so when things like this come up, especially topics that are common, then they have an interest. Advice and direction are free.

    rvd was trying to OC, he just took the cautious approach.

    I know MOC is in deep with CADL, and for VERY good reason, I have always been behind them in this, but gun rights in this state are going to be more than a single fight here or there.

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