Shotgun and Doug. You guys break me up and here I sit, a lowly retired computer design engineer that helped design the computers that are installed on all surface navy ships, titan rocket guidance sytem, Trident Nuclear Submarines, minuteman Missle, Stealth bomber, F-18 fighter, Harpoon missle and some others. My mother said I would never amount to anything. She always introduced me as "meet my son, the failure". Whoa is me. Now all I can do is sit and read posts on a gun rights forum and try to deduce what they have to do with open carry. I think I vaguely remember that there is a feature on this forum named Private Mesages.