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Thread: Decision to make... Stoeger, CZ, or EAA...

  1. #1
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    Question Decision to make... Stoeger, CZ, or EAA...

    Right now I'm looking at picking up a new handgun, and have pretty much narrowed it down to 3 choices...

    Stoeger Cougar 9mm or .40 (approx. $400)
    CZ-75 9mm (around $600 local)
    EAA Witness Steel 9mm (not found local yet)

    The CZ and Cougar I've handled, and the CZ fits a little better, but is a bit above the budget I want to spend at the moment. Also the Cougar seems like it would be better for a CCW or OC, as it is a bit smaller, I've also read it's a terrific value for the price. I've been told the Witness would have a very similar feel to the CZ, being basically a copy...

    Also today thrown into the mix was a green/black SR9 on consignment with 2 mags for $475 out the door... I'm really not a fan of polymer or striker fired, but the price is good, and I've always been a big fan of Ruger...

    Any thoughts from people who have had opinions with more than 1 of these to compare? I've been told the quality is probably best on the CZ, next would be the Ruger and Stoeger, with the EAA coming up at the bottom (heard about horrible customer service if the need arises...)

    Just really torn right now. Still trying to find a Witness locally to handle and feel and check price on...

  2. #2
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    I'd go for the CZ. $600 seems high, I paid $600 out the door for my CZ75 SP-01 and I got a rail, night sights, 18+1 capacity and slightly better ergonomics than the standard CZ75. It is an exceptionally accurate weapon and has had no issues with a wide variety of ammunition. I think it's the best value in a full size 9mm/40SW that isn't made of plastic.

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    Thumbs up

    That's what I've heard all around.
    Going to a shop in the next town down that seems to have better prices next week, hopefully they can do a little better, because I seem to be finding CZ-75's around $500 online. Still debating on CZ-75 or CZ-75 Compact if I go that route, and I'd definitely have to handle the compact to decide on that, from the images I've seen, I'm afraid the grip might be a little on the short side for me, the Cougar is close, but not bad...
    The only thing I don't care for on the Cougar is the grip is a little thin front to back, width and height are ok...
    I agonize for weeks over spending on big ticket items, but I always seem to come out happy with my decision in the end, heh. So maybe there's something to be said for asking tons of questions and poring over images, reviews, and getting hands-on.

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    I do the same thing, drives my girl nuts. I'll spend hours and hours looking over reviews and comparisons, down to minute detail. It's tedious, but has saved me lots of money and headaches in everything from books to cars.

    The cz 75 series of pistols is really one of the best in the world. I've had high end 1911's, springfield xd's, glocks, S&W revolver, etc... Of them all the quality of the CZ has been on par or better than my 1911's. My CZ SP-01 is a dream to shoot and is really accurate. It;s has it's limitations because of the trigger system, but I shoot it so well i can't complain about that. I even bought a CZ 82 a few months ago and it has surprised me in it's quality and accuracy. My girlfriend has decided it's hers now, so I guess I wont be selling or trading that one anytime soon.

    If you have any issue with the cz75 trigger reach or grip, try out the newer p-01 and sp-01, same basic gun but with some redesigning of the frame to assist in reaching the trigger and some ergonomics.

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    You'll have better luck with the CZ or the EAA. If you're looking at the EAA, know that the 75 style pistols are one and the same. Most manufacturers of the 75 and it's clones now get a considerable amount of their parts from Tanfoglio. I've owned several CZ's and a Tanfo, so I'm well versed in them thanks to the CZ forum.

    So here's your options on them:

    CZ-75
    Tanfoglio clone
    Tanfoglio/EAA Clone
    EAA clone
    Baby Eagle 9mm, you wan the all metal version, not the polymer (this is an IWI Israeli product and far superior to the CZ)
    Jericho 941 (same as the Baby Eagle, just imported either before Magnum Research took it up or after Magnum Research dropped it)

    There are a couple of other clones out there, but these are the better. If you're seeing $600, I can honestly tell you that is WAY too much for a standard 75. You'd be looking at a SP-01 Tactical for that kind of money.

    A fair price on a standard 75 will be around the $500 price point. You can find the CZ-75 Compact (not the P-01) for less than that, usually around the $400-$425 mark.

    Know this: The CZ-75 can accept all other CZ-75 mags, similar to what Glock does with their 9mm (you cannot go compact to full size, you must go full size to compact or the mags will be too short). The SP-01 has 18 and 19 round mags that will also fit the 75, but they hang below a bit. Same goes for the Baby Eagle and the Jericho, they also can accept the CZ-75 and SP-01 mags. The Tanfoglio and EAA products are not all that way, there are some models known as wide-frame and will not accept those CZ-75 mags.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 08-18-2010 at 12:56 AM.

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    Thumbs up

    Well, I think at the moment I've decided on either a Witness, or preferrably, Witness Elite Match. One place in town had a CZ-75, but the price was WAY high (close to 650 I think...).
    Unfortunately my best bet around here is get a Witness Elite Match online and pay a local dealer to receive it, because noone is able to touch the prices I'm finding online...
    Gonna hold off and try to get to the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife show next weekend (pending childcare) and see what I can find up there, because the best price I've found on a Witness Elite Match ($500) is also backordered 6-8 weeks...
    Decided on a Witness Elite Match because I don't get a lot of practice, so I want a gun that can easily outshoot me that I can work up to and get my fundamentals down, and maybe later on some informal or limited competition, if I can find the time. Everything I've read about the Elite Match is good things, so I know I don't have much to worry about in the way of the gun, just myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRose View Post
    Well, I think at the moment I've decided on either a Witness, or preferrably, Witness Elite Match. One place in town had a CZ-75, but the price was WAY high (close to 650 I think...).
    Unfortunately my best bet around here is get a Witness Elite Match online and pay a local dealer to receive it, because noone is able to touch the prices I'm finding online...
    Gonna hold off and try to get to the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife show next weekend (pending childcare) and see what I can find up there, because the best price I've found on a Witness Elite Match ($500) is also backordered 6-8 weeks...
    Decided on a Witness Elite Match because I don't get a lot of practice, so I want a gun that can easily outshoot me that I can work up to and get my fundamentals down, and maybe later on some informal or limited competition, if I can find the time. Everything I've read about the Elite Match is good things, so I know I don't have much to worry about in the way of the gun, just myself.

    Elite Match is one I've had, though I never got the chance to shoot it and I wish I had. Just so you have it at your disposal, visit Angus Hobdell's website (CZ Custom) and see about getting some trigger pins. The factory rolled spring pin on those tend to walk out as they were not flared on the ends from the factory.

    You'll also want to do some deep exploration on magazines as the Match takes a unique magazine that only fits a small number of models. It is a wide-frame after all. Thought you might want to know before you accidentally buy the wrong magazines like others have. (thanks to the CZ forum for putting that info out there or I wouldn't have known)

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    Get the CZ. They are one of the last companies to make an all steel service 9. The fit and finish of these guns is quite good and you are also paying a little bit more to have a gun from one of the best gun makers in the world. The CZ is a mans gun. I have an preB version that is my standard house gun and range weapon.

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    When this question comes up, my answer is always, "Get the CZ." CZs have the best combination of ergonomics, durability, and accuracy of any pistol on the market today, in my opinion. I have been shooting since I could toddle and have racked up my share of awards, so I've shot almost everything out there, but the CZs are consistently at the top of my list. I currently own a CZ97 (.45 ACP), CZ75B (.40 S&W), CZ85 combat (9mm), three CZ75s (9x19mm), and four CZ82s (9x18mm). Except for my Wilson M1911, these are pretty much the ones I count upon for self-defense, and I only bought the Wilson because the CZ97 is heavy enough to make my old back injury act up when carried in a concealment holster. Yes, I'm a confessed CZ fanboy, but I contend that the reason is that they are simply the best pistols made today.

    I paid about $600 for my CZ97 a few years ago and it will shoot rings around any other pistol retailing for less than $3,000. If you have to, save up a little more and buy a CZ, or just keep looking until you find one for a price you are willing to pay. It has been my experience that a well-maintained used pistol is typically smoother and more accurate than a similar new pistol. This is because the use causes the parts to "wear in" to fit one another. If you have the experience to know what to look for or you have a trusted gunsmith, the best buy is often used.

  10. #10
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    CZ 52 is a nice gun if you get the one made to handle the higher velocity round. CZ82- i think it's called, is a nice compact gun. tried and true, of historic value to boot.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    CZ 52 is a nice gun if you get the one made to handle the higher velocity round. CZ82- i think it's called, is a nice compact gun. tried and true, of historic value to boot.
    To the best of my knowledge, all CZs are made to handle high-velocity (+P) ammunition. That was one of things that was considered "innovative" when the CZ75 hit the U.S. The design in which the slide rides inside the frame rather than outside is very strong. The only issue is that CZ75/85 pistols often benefit from stronger springs if you're planning to carry them for self-defense because they come from the factory with a spring which will allow the pistol to cycle with cartridges on the lower end of the standard pressure spectrum. Even with the "standard" springs, the pistol will function just fine with +P rounds, but you might wear it out in 500,000 rounds instead of 750,000. The heavier springs also help reduce perceived recoil and get you back on target quicker.

    Edit -- Oops, I misread your post. The CZ52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_52 is one of the few CZs that I wouldn't recommend for self-defense. The reason is that it was designed as a military holster pistol and was carried with an empty chamber. It may discharge if dropped with a round in the chamber and there isn't really any way to change that. The 7.62x25mm round chambered in the CZ52 is a very high-velocity round and certainly does a lot of damage on the receiving end but it has a disconcerting tendency to ricochet. The CZ82, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_82 on the other hand, is chambered for 9x18mm ("Makarov") which is a little more powerful than a .380. The CZ82 was also designed as a holster pistol for military and police and although it is quite safe with a round in the chamber, it is somewhat larger than most other pistols in a comparable caliber. It is very accurate, easy to clean and maintain, and has outstanding ergonomics. It has a 12+1 capacity which is a plus in a defensive pistol and can be found for around $300. It wouldn't be my first choice simply because it is on the low end of power for a defensive pistol but it's definitely an option. The main thing I like about the CZ82 is that it's just tons of fun to shoot. The size and ergonomics make it extremely manageable and you can shoot until your ammo money runs out without tiring your hands.
    Last edited by Cavalryman; 04-24-2011 at 06:07 PM.

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    No contest, get the CZ, but be warned that they do multiply in the safe.

  13. #13
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    well Stoeger is a great brand. i own 4 cougars, 9mm, 40, 45 and 357 sig. accurate as heck, reliable and feels nice. Also the CZ is a great weapon too.

    personally i would stay away from an EAA. had a "witness" and it was junk.

    CZ is thinner than the cougar, but its all up to personal preference :-)

  14. #14
    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    I bought a CZ-75B about 10 years ago, damn fine gun. All steel, nice balance. Only complaint is the non adjustable rear sight. Bought a Ruger p90 about the same time. Another damn fine gun. Would highly recommend either and will not part with either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by altajava View Post
    I bought a CZ-75B about 10 years ago, damn fine gun. All steel, nice balance. Only complaint is the non adjustable rear sight.
    The CZ85 Combat is essentially the same pistol but it has an adjustable rear sight.

  16. #16
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    I own a CZ 85 B, and if I might make a suggestion, consider the 85 over the 75. The 85 is an updated design, both to improve reliability as well as ambidextrious controls, useful in case you have to shoot opposite handed. It also has a ring hammer, which is less likely to get stuck on clothing.

    I'm pretty sure CZ USA used to sell a CZ 85 BD model (decocking lever instead of a locked and cocked safety), but it's not listed on their website. I'd trade in my B for a BD in a heartbeat if I could.

    There's a reason the "CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world." People have fired 100,000 rounds through them without a fault. Whether you go with the 75 or the 85, it's difficult to go wrong with a CZ.
    Last edited by since9; 05-09-2011 at 05:48 AM.
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    Well thanks for the comments on the necro thread guys, lol.

    I ended up going with the Witness Elite Match several months ago, no problems yet, and it's a MUCH better gun than I'm capable of utilizing to its full potential, yet... Only downside was that it's a little big for carry, so snapped up a Sig P6 to cover that hole in the lineup.
    Now I'm looking at other CZ variants, I like the CZ-75 Cold War edition, and some of the Armalite pistols on the CZ design...

  18. #18
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    EAA, Witness Elite Match

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRose View Post
    Well, I think at the moment I've decided on either a Witness, or preferrably, Witness Elite Match. One place in town had a CZ-75, but the price was WAY high (close to 650 I think...).
    Unfortunately my best bet around here is get a Witness Elite Match online and pay a local dealer to receive it, because noone is able to touch the prices I'm finding online...
    Gonna hold off and try to get to the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife show next weekend (pending childcare) and see what I can find up there, because the best price I've found on a Witness Elite Match ($500) is also backordered 6-8 weeks...
    Decided on a Witness Elite Match because I don't get a lot of practice, so I want a gun that can easily outshoot me that I can work up to and get my fundamentals down, and maybe later on some informal or limited competition, if I can find the time. Everything I've read about the Elite Match is good things, so I know I don't have much to worry about in the way of the gun, just myself.
    I own and have used the Witness Elite Match for some time, in a 40 S&W with converted to 10mm, it is like the 1911 in that you can carryit cocked and locked due to the fact it is a single action weapon. As a shooter I love it and I will tell you flat out if you plan on only open Carry you will be in good shape as a CCW you have to bear in mind this weapon weighs in at 33 oz. empty, with a full load of one in the pipe and 15 in the box you are looking at a Brick in a leather box. Now as to the function of the weapon I have to tell you it is a very accurate weapon and the 10mm is nothing to be worried about as the recoil from this gun is no more than a 45 acp 1911.

    Note a Beretta 96 Leather with some pushing will fit this weapon, however there has been a design change by EAA and a Light rail has been added which makes this a bit more of a chalenge.

    I desided to change from the EAA Elite Witness as a Carry gun and have chosen instead the Remington Model 1911 r1 as my new carry weapon it is less expensive that some at a SMRP of 699.00, [no I'm not selling for them], I was at an open house where this weapon was one on display, never should have put it in my hand, it is a natural pointing weapon as are most 1911's it looks good feels good shoots better.

    You mentioned you liked Ruger weapons have you looked at the new Ruger 38 Special 5 shot revolver Hammerless, if is a feather weight and very impressive, teamed with Hornady Critical Defence ammo in regular 38 special or 38 +P totall awsome as a carry or home defence weapon. Check out Hornady Web Site for the Video on this little monster. I might also add that Revolvers do not normally missfeed or fail to fire.

    Didn't mean to be so windy but I hope I have offered some help!
    Last edited by Kelly J; 05-11-2011 at 10:14 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member 230therapy's Avatar
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    How is the customer service for those companies? It's something you should seriously consider; I use it as the deciding factor if I am unable to decide between two guns.
    Does anyone here actually believe that the Founders were sitting around in John Adams' tavern UNARMED because they believed a bar should be a gun free zone?

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