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Thread: Bank's doors activated by positive metal detector reading

  1. #1
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    Bank's doors activated by positive metal detector reading

    3 Questions:
    I wonder what the failure rate is on this device?
    I wonder what, besides a gun, would set off this alarm, locking you out of the bank?
    I wonder what would happen if someone concealing tried to get in. I bet they'd just waive you in?


    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/...pringfield.htm

    Attempted Bank Robbery in Springfield Area
    Franconia Police District – On Wednesday, August 11 around noon, three men entered the Union Bank located at 6975 Springfield Boulevard in Springfield, in what appears to be a robbery attempt. The three men entered the first set of doors for the bank and put on masks. A metal detector inside the doorway was activated and the second set of doors into the bank automatically locked. The three men attempted to enter the bank but were unsuccessful so they then left on foot. No one was injured.

    The three men were described as black and around 6 feet tall. One was wearing a lime-green shirt and a baseball cap and a second was wearing a white shirt and baseball cap.

    Anyone with information is asked to contact Crime Solvers by phone at 1-866-411-TIPS/8477, e-mail at www.fairfaxcrimesolvers.org or text “TIP187” plus your message to CRIMES/274637 or call Fairfax County Police at 703-691-2131.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Does Union Bank prohibit firearms? What if a LEO needs to go to the bank?

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Doc anybody other than DOC and similar utilize a fully contained locking system?

    BTW - that would be a positive metal reading, not a negative.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-13-2010 at 01:29 PM. Reason: added thought
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Good job by Fairfax telling the criminals exactly what caused them to not be able to rob the bank that day.

    Next week, when they figure out a way around it, they'll be back....

    WTG Fairfax.
    James Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Good job by Fairfax telling the criminals exactly what caused them to not be able to rob the bank that day.

    Next week, when they figure out a way around it, they'll be back....

    WTG Fairfax.
    I'm sure they'll come back with some "plastic" Glocks to do the job right.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Reasonably sure that this system has a manual override for LEO and Brinks etc. therefore, it likely has a manual activate too - point is maybe they were stopped by a keen eyed employee.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I am rather disappointed that the bank did not go for the full sallyport system that some other high-dollar-volume places utilize. Enter door #1, which locks behind you. Door #2 is activated to open either manually or by some combination of negative metal detection or PIN. If door #2 is not activated you get to remain behind bullet/impact-resistant barriers until the police leisurely arrive or the folks inside assemble their welcoming kit.

    About the only thing I've seen that is more fun are the "instantaneous"-closing shutters that slam down from above - usually capturing the miscreant who was attempting to reach or jump over a counter. The ones that rise up are no fun, as all they do is throw the jerks back onto the floor.

    stay safe.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    I'm sure they'll come back with some "plastic" Glocks to do the job right.
    Once it is cooler.. maybe in the fall or winter

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    They said metal detecting, meaning guns. Glocks would set off their explosive device sniffers.


    (there I added one too even though a glock is on my side every day )

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    They said metal detecting, meaning guns. Glocks would set off their explosive device sniffers.
    ROFL!!!

    I don't have anything against Glocks personally; but that just cracked me up!

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    What about a bag of change?

    Couple rolls of quarters or a wheel chair and they lock you out! I guess cops and armed agents must bank elsewhere I think that is to much of an inconvenience.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    As for the ones that lock you in...

    ... If your just a normal guy who is OC/CC and gets locked into one of these, wouldn't it be unlawful detainment??

    Even if you overlooked a GFZ sticker, it would still only be misdemeanor trespass if you refused to leave, right?
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    ... If your just a normal guy who is OC/CC and gets locked into one of these, wouldn't it be unlawful detainment??

    Even if you overlooked a GFZ sticker, it would still only be misdemeanor trespass if you refused to leave, right?
    Perhaps that is why the three were allowed to leave? They were not allowed access to the facility but were not unlawfully detained in the process. The bank personnel could not determine criminal intent but in consideration of security refused them access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Couple rolls of quarters or a wheel chair and they lock you out! I guess cops and armed agents must bank elsewhere I think that is to much of an inconvenience.
    Yeah, I'd be willing to bet the "metal detector" statement is bogus. Somebody didn't like their looks and hit a button locking them out, but the bank doesn't want to be thought of as profiling.

  15. #15
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by architect View Post
    Yeah, I'd be willing to bet the "metal detector" statement is bogus. Somebody didn't like their looks and hit a button locking them out, but the bank doesn't want to be thought of as profiling.
    Yea, how dare they profile against GUYS IN SKI MASKS IN SUMMERTIME.

    Next time maybe read the story eh?
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    a third-grader can figure out how to beat this "security" system...

    Hasn't anyone ever heard of "holding the door" for someone?

    Are the security managers in these businesses REALLY that stupid that they think this "security system" will actually work more than once?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    a third-grader can figure out how to beat this "security" system...

    Hasn't anyone ever heard of "holding the door" for someone?

    Are the security managers in these businesses REALLY that stupid that they think this "security system" will actually work more than once?
    In a properly designed system, both doors in a sally port entrance cannot routinely be opened at the same time.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    How Many False Positives Would Such a System Produce?

    Just scanning this thread makes me think that such a system at a bank would be a pain in the butt for them because it would constantly be going off. Lots of people have more than just car keys on their persons. For example:

    Steel toed work boots and medical inplants (I have a plate in my neck).

  19. #19
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Spot on....

    Quote Originally Posted by rugerdon View Post
    Just scanning this thread makes me think that such a system at a bank would be a pain in the butt for them because it would constantly be going off. Lots of people have more than just car keys on their persons. For example:

    Steel toed work boots and medical inplants (I have a plate in my neck).
    I agree with a previous poster that the doors were probably remotely manually locked by an alert bank employee who saw the perps getting ready to enter in ski masks. The "metal detector" theory has too many flaws to be operational for a retail establishment that is open to the general public.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Uhm, coins? Aren't they made of metal? Don't you have to remove them from your pocket when going through a metal detector?

    I'm pretty sure the idea that these devices are activated by a metal detector is just a 'security rumor' to scare off people who are too dumb to understand it can't be so. Retailers make deposits with rolled coins weighing several pounds all the time. There is no way a 'threshold' of 'metal content' could be set that would disallow a P-32, but allow 5lbs of quarters, nickles, dimes, and pennies.

    I've concealed a P89 into a bank with such a device on many occasions. Nothing happened. I wasn't imprisoned or denied access, nor was I overwhelmed by a desire to rob the place or kill anyone.

    Weird...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiheitai17 View Post
    Perhaps that is why the three were allowed to leave? They were not allowed access to the facility but were not unlawfully detained in the process. The bank personnel could not determine criminal intent but in consideration of security refused them access.
    If they were wearing ski masks, then they had already committed a felony.

    § 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

    It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. . . The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.
    Last edited by VApatriot; 08-16-2010 at 07:58 PM.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    If they where wearing ski masks, then they had already committed a felony.

    § 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

    It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. . . The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.
    Point well made.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    If they were wearing ski masks, then they had already committed a felony.

    § 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

    It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. . . The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.
    Doesn't this make it illegal for cancer patients to wear wigs with cut-styles that obscure the face?, or men to dress up like women with makeup on their face? What about someone who's face is bandaged?
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-17-2010 at 01:16 AM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Doesn't this make it illegal for cancer patients to wear wigs with cut-styles that obscure the face?, or men to dress up like women with makeup on their face? What about someone who's face is bandaged?
    Why do you think KISS hasn't played Virginia since this law was enacted?!?


  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Doesn't this make it illegal for cancer patients to wear wigs with cut-styles that obscure the face?, or men to dress up like women with makeup on their face? What about someone who's face is bandaged?
    One of my most hated laws. It also makes hunters that wear masks Felons, old people walking around with dust masks...Felons and people who wear full face helmets and don't take them off when paying for gas...Felons.

    It's almost as bad as allowing CHP'ers to carry while bowhunting.

    When Bolling was a Senator, I tried to get him to work on it. He said "Oh law enforcement always uses common sense". I haven't liked the idiot since.

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