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Royal Oak Further Attempts to Usurp Second Amendment Rights

PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
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Location
SE, Michigan, USA
All -

I have found that the City Of Royal Oak is attempting to ban Firearms from Public Buildings by asking for the Michigan Legislature to amend MCL 123.1102 to give local units of government the discretion to enact and
enforce ordinances that make local public buildings gun-free zones.

Please see the following Agenda Item for the August 16th City Commission Meeting:

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/sites/default/files/meetings/City Commission/2010/0816-19.pdf

This resolution relies upon perceived non-attendance of the public at the City Commission Meetings and First Amendment infringements in accordance with the Michigan Open Meetings Act. This is interesting as I believe many who spoke at the City Commission Meetings said they were concerned about guns but STILL WERE PRESENT AND SPOKE. The factual information appears to contradict the claims of the City Attorney.

Open Meetings Act Information (starting on page 26): http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/OpenMtgsFreedom.pdf

Please review this information and take the appropriate action.
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
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PDinDetroit said:
All -

I have found that the City Of Royal Oak is attempting to ban Firearms from Public Buildings by asking for the Michigan Legislature to amend MCL 123.1102 to give local units of government the discretion to enact and
enforce ordinances that make local public buildings gun-free zones.

Please see the following Agenda Item for the August 16th City Commission Meeting:

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/sites/default/files/meetings/City Commission/2010/0816-19.pdf

This resolution relies upon perceived non-attendance of the public at the City Commission Meetings and First Amendment infringements in accordance with the Michigan Open Meetings Act. This is interesting as I believe many who spoke at the City Commission Meetings said they were concerned about guns but STILL WERE PRESENT AND SPOKE. The factual information appears to contradict the claims of the City Attorney.

Open Meetings Act Information (starting on page 26): http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/OpenMtgsFreedom.pdf

Please review this information and take the appropriate action.
Click to expand...
They can ask, but I doubt it will get anywhere. There have been zero problems, let alone crimes with people that carry into local public buildings, to restrict our 2A rights, especially on the heels of the McDonald decision.

But if the state congress does try it we will be all over it.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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Messages
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SE, Michigan, USA
Royal Oak Email Contacts

Please let the City Of Royal Oak know what you think about this issue. I believe that they need to appease certain people about this and may hope to spark an inappropriate reaction from the law-abiding and responsible firearm carriers I know you are. I ask you to be professional, well-reasoned, and not devolve into name calling or any unlawful behavior/actions.

The Honorable Mayor, Jim Ellison: cmellison@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
Donald E. Johnson, City Manager: donj@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
David Gillam, City Attorney: daveg@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
Michael Andrzejak, City Commissioner: ccandrzejak@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
Patricia Capello, City Commissioner: cccapello@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
Terry Drinkwine, City Commissioner: ccdrinkwine@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
David J. Poulton, City Commissioner: ccpoulton@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
Jim Rasor, City Commissioner: ccrasor@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
Charles Semchena, City Commissioner: ccsemchena@ci.royal-oak.mi.us
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

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I just would like to mention that the Michigan Municipal League (MML) has been trying this for some time now. I would imagine (and hope) that Royal Oak's letter will fall on the same deaf ears as the MML's attempts to change the law.
 
S

sasha601

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Rochester Hills, Michigan, USA
They will not be successful with this. Not in any foreseeable future. Especially with governorship changing to GOP for sure. Legislature would also likely to shift to the right this November, possibly with GOP gaining control over House (definitely will not loose Senate which it controls now). I do not want to start political debate here. I know some Dems are pro-gun in Michigan legislature. But, GOP control historically better for gun rights.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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I welcome all who read this thread/posts to come to the Royal Oak City Commission Meeting on Monday August 16th, 2010 at 7:30 PM. The meeting is held at 211 S Williams St, on the 3rd floor, room 315.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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DrTodd said:
I just would like to mention that the Michigan Municipal League (MML) has been trying this for some time now. I would imagine (and hope) that Royal Oak's letter will fall on the same deaf ears as the MML's attempts to change the law.
Click to expand...

Can you provide some informational links on this? I would like that data for the meeting on Monday.
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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Don't get overconfident. The ABE issue has gone well for us, as did McDonald, however, wherever there is honey, there are bees. This could lead to an increase in PFZs, not a decrease which would make more sense. We need to guard our victories with vigilance, in order to prevent the further loss of our rights. There are a lot of emotionally charged antis who will take their fears to the legislature and beg for more.
 
C

CoonDog

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Farmington Hills, Michigan, USA
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Royal Oak City
Commission hereby encourages our elected representatives to amend
State law to give local units of government the discretion to enact and
enforce ordinances that make local public buildings gun-free zones.
Click to expand...
They're not asking to amend either 750.234d or 28.425o regarding PFZ. Instead, they're asking to transfer the ability to legislate on firearms carry from the State to City. Imo, this is DOA as the State will not give up it's authority in this area as that's the whole point of preemption in the first place.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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stainless1911 said:
Don't get overconfident. The ABE issue has gone well for us, as did McDonald, however, wherever there is honey, there are bees. This could lead to an increase in PFZs, not a decrease which would make more sense. We need to guard our victories with vigilance, in order to prevent the further loss of our rights. There are a lot of emotionally charged antis who will take their fears to the legislature and beg for more.
Click to expand...

Stainless - due to the McDonald Ruling, any state or local laws/ordinances have to show overwhelming evidence that restricting a fundamental CIVIL RIGHT is in the Public's best interest. I believe it would be pretty hard to justify restricting 2A because of 1A since the actual bearing of arms is a Freedom Of Expression protected under 1A.
 
Michigander

Michigander

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Any time is a good time to email and call law makers, but this is an even better time. Anyone who wants to help make sure this falls on deaf ears needs to be contacting their reps with concerns over how out of line royal oak is, as well as how bad of an idea their suggestions are, not to mention that the gun free zones need to be eliminated, not expanded.
 
Venator

Venator

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autosurgeon said:
They are not the first and likely won't be the last.

South Haven asked for the same thing last year and it went no where.
Click to expand...

This is political posturing by the RO board. They have to make an attempt so they can tell their anti-gun constituents they tried, but the state said no. Of course all the pro-gun constituents need to remember this and vote accordingly.
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

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sasha601 said:
They will not be successful with this. Not in any foreseeable future. Especially with governorship changing to GOP for sure. Legislature would also likely to shift to the right this November, possibly with GOP gaining control over House (definitely will not loose Senate which it controls now). I do not want to start political debate here. I know some Dems are pro-gun in Michigan legislature. But, GOP control historically better for gun rights.
Click to expand...

I think during a "Republican" administration, the chances of having anti-gun legislation succeed is greater as are the chances of it being removed, are lessened.

A few cases in point:

1.) John Engler...who famously vetoed shall-issue CPL legislation a number of times in Michigan. As I recall, his argument was always centered on the theme that he did not want people to be able to "run to their cars and get a gun" if they were in an argument.

2) California requires pistols carried openly to be unloaded...guess who was the CA governor who pushed for that? None other than Ronald Reagan.

3) Jim and Sarah Brady, staunch republicans. I know that Brady was shot and I do have sympathy, but I don't see many people who suffered at the hands of an automobile driver advocating the abolishment of cars.

4) Speaking of the Brady Campaign, how about REPUBLICAN Paul Helmke. Paul Helmke has served as President of the Brady Campaign and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence since mid-July 2006. Helmke was Indianapolis' REPUBLICAN mayor for a number of years and was the REPUBLICAN nominee for US Senate at one time.

There are many, many, more...

I think anything is possible at ANY time from ANY member of either of the two parties, Dems AND Repubs, because they believe that we here are just the "rabble"
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

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Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
army74 said:
Im wondering if Royal Oak and The City of Pontiac arent working together on this.
Click to expand...

It's easy to see how one could come to that question. They both seem to have leadership that is completely detached from the "realities of the common people living in today's society". IMHO

Many of today's leaders seem to suffer from "Do as I say, not as I do syndrome". Questions? Google Kwame Kilpatrick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0Hx36d9k-A

where this type of leadership usually leads to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCm1tQfuHeg&feature=related
 
Last edited:
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

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As usual the DOC hits it out of the park!

DrTodd said:
I think during a "Republican" administration, the chances of having anti-gun legislation succeed is greater as are the chances of it being removed, are lessened.

A few cases in point:

1.) John Engler...who famously vetoed shall-issue CPL legislation a number of times in Michigan. As I recall, his argument was always centered on the theme that he did not want people to be able to "run to their cars and get a gun" if they were in an argument.

2) California requires pistols carried openly to be unloaded...guess who was the CA governor who pushed for that? None other than Ronald Reagan.

3) Jim and Sarah Brady, staunch republicans. I know that Brady was shot and I do have sympathy, but I don't see many people who suffered at the hands of an automobile driver advocating the abolishment of cars.

4) Speaking of the Brady Campaign, how about REPUBLICAN Paul Helmke. Paul Helmke has served as President of the Brady Campaign and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence since mid-July 2006. Helmke was Indianapolis' REPUBLICAN mayor for a number of years and was the REPUBLICAN nominee for US Senate at one time.

There are many, many, more...

I think anything is possible at ANY time from ANY member of either of the two parties, Dems AND Repubs, because they believe that we here are just the "rabble"
Click to expand...

It is clear we must engage ALL POLITICIANS regardless of their "claimed" party ties.
 
E

ElectricianLU58

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
228
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
i think we were very lucky with granholm, 2A wise. granholm and john cherry have been real good to us. she seems to know that people who carry legally are not who we should be worried about.
 
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