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Encounter with Jefferson County Sheriff AT GUNPOINT!

ZackL

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
340
Location
Calhan, Co.
Pretty intense, but I believe that you handled it well and, obviously, you were in the right to carry. I'm not sure if a lawsuit is in order, if you'd like to then that is, of course, your right and decision to do so. At the very least, I think that an open carry meet in Littleton is definitely in order.
 
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Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
Wow... What laws can the regular people violate and get away with???

Sounds like they committed a felony known as assault with a deadly weapon.

Sounds like another LEO comitted a second felony known as "browsing" (unauthorized access to a government computer).

So are you going to sue for a civil rights violation and try to get them fired and or prosecuted for feloniously assaulting you?
 

entartet17

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
206
Location
Aurora, Colorado, USA
Sorry to hear that happened. You handled the situation well. Needless to say, they were completely in the wrong and you should definitely pursue the matter further.
 

wthornton0206

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
25
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Rather you take on the job and headache of taking this to a lawsuit, I would advise at least talking to a lawyer( in gun rights) about it.

Definately! I would never consider doing something like that without someone who knows the system at my side. Maybe Dudley over at RMGO might have some ideas.... At this point however, its good to hear that you guys believe I handled it well. As I said in my OP my open carry has nothing to do with my job and Im still somewhat new to it. The advice and experience of those of you who have had contacts with LEOs is a tremendous boost to my confidence when I carry.
 

Curmudgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
307
Location
York, Pennsylvania, USA
Although I wasn't there (obviously) and I haven't seen any mention of it yet, I would have to believe that the over-the-top behavior of the Littleton badge-wearing bozos caused immeasurably greater horror to the passengers of your bus than anything you were doing that day.

Yet another example of an overly militant police force injecting more disturbance and upset into a situation than would ever have existed without their interference.

I hope you find yourself in a position to follow through with any and all legal remedies at your disposal. These guys truly need to be brought up to speed. Littleton is hardly the only area of the US that has some sort of "history", and said history does not excuse their oppressive actions that day.

I sincerely hope you'll fare well.
 

yotebuster223

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
The response of the deputies encourages me even more to carry. It probably took them what ten minutes or more to mobilize and come up with a plan to get you off the bus. Now if this was a man with a GUN with bad intentions how many people would said MWAG have killed or severely injure in that amount of time. This is exactly why I carry because a MWAG isn't going to wait while the playing field is leveled i.e. "the cops get there."
And one of the Oath taking DEFENDERS of the Constitution of the state of Colorado actually said to you "what gives you the right to carry a gun" He definitely isn't living up to his oath and needs to be taken off the streets and put back into the academy until he can truly DEFEND the Constitution of the state of Colorado.
 
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Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Withdrawing my post, when I thought the OP was deprived of his rights. It now appears he is deprived of any common sense.
 
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Dynamite Rabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Longmont, CO, ,
The area where Southwest Plaza mall is located is considered unicorporated Jefferson County. I say Littleton in my posts and conversation because it gives one a better idea of the general location of things.

Gotcha -- I wondered about that. I guess that blows my perception that Sheriff's Deputies are better to deal with than PDs. :(
 

Butch00

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
215
Location
Alaska
It looks like something needs to be done, Any open carriers will get the same treatment.
That to me would be a threat, Violation of Constitutional rights under color of law.
Perjury of oath is a felony. Looks like the sheriffs department needs to replace a few people.
 

carguy

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
27
Location
Firestone, Colorado, USA
What an experience

Sounds like you handled it well. Should you decide to move ahead with a civil suit, which I believe is the only way to get enough attention to change laws and attitudes, may I suggest you visit with opencarrybilly. He has a suit working vs Loveland PD. It is difficult to find an attorney who will take on a case like this. Bill may be able to save you some steps. Plus he's a great guy to visit with.
 

wthornton0206

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
25
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Turns out i was technically arrested!!!

Just found this infomation:

Detentions vs. Arrests
Detentions vs. Arrests: If not handled properly, a "detention" could become an "arrest" which, if not supported by "probable cause" to arrest, would be illegal. (Orozco v. Texas (1969) 394 U.S. 324 [22 L.Ed.2nd 311].)


General Rule: The use of firearms, handcuffs, putting a person into a locked patrol car, transporting him without his consent, or simply a "show of force," may, under the circumstances, cause the court to later find that an attempted detention was in fact an arrest, and, if made without "probable cause," illegal. (United States v. Ramos-Zaragosa (9th Cir. 1975) 516 F.2nd 141, 144; New York v. Quarles (1984) 467 U.S. 649 [81 L.Ed.2nd 550], handcuffs; Orozco v. Texas, supra, force.)


Indicators of an Arrest:

The Use of Firearms
The use of firearms. (People v. Taylor (1986) 178 Cal.App.3rd 217, 229; United States v. Ramos-Zaragosa, supra.)


The Use of Handcuffs
The use of handcuffs. (New York v. Quarles, supra; United States v. Purry (D.C. Cir. 1976) 545 F.2nd 217, 220.)

While putting a juvenile in a security office at the border, and frisking her, were not enough to constitute an arrest, handcuffing her shortly thereafter when contraband was found in her car was an arrest. (United States v. Juvenile (RRA-A) (9th Cir. 2000) 229 F.3rd 737, 743.)


A Locked Patrol Car
Putting the subject into a locked patrol car. (People v. Natale (1978) 77 Cal.App.3rd 568, 572; United States v. Parr (9th Cir. 1988) 843 F.2nd 1228; United States v. Ricardo D. (9th Cir. 1990) 912 F.2nd 337, 340; "Detention in a patrol car exceeds permissible Terry (v. Ohio (1968) 392 U.S. 1 [20 L.Ed.2nd 889].) limits absent some reasonable justification."

Show of Force
During an overwhelming show of force. (Orozco v. Texas, supra; United States v. Ali (2nd Cir. 1996) 86 F.3rd 275, defendant was asked to step away from the boarding area at an airport, his travel documents were taken, and he was surrounded by seven officers with visible handguns; and Kaupp v. Texas (2003) 538 U.S. 626, 628-630 [155 L.Ed.2nd 814, 819-820], three officers, with three more in the next room, commanded the 17-year-old defendant to get out of bed at 3:00 a.m., and took him to the police station for questioning.)


Physical Touching
The physical touching of the person of the suspect. (Kaupp v. Texas, supra, at p. 630 [155 L.Ed.2nd at p. 820.)


Transporting a Detainee
Transporting a Detainee. (Dunaway v. New York (1979) 442 U.S. 200, 206-216 [60 L.Ed.2nd 824, 832-838]; Taylor v. Alabama (1982) 457 U.S. 687 [73 L.Ed.2nd 314].)

As a general rule: Detention

+ nonconsensual transportation

= arrest.

See also People v. Harris (1975) 15 Cal.3rd 384, 390-392; transporting a subject from the site of a traffic stop back to the scene of the crime for a victim identification, absent one of the recognized exceptions, was an arrest.

"(W)e have never ‘sustained against Fourth Amendment challenge the involuntary removal of a suspect from his home to a police station and his detention there for investigative purposes . . . absent probable cause or judicial authorization.' [Citation]" Kaupp v. Texas (2003) 538 U.S. 626, 630 [155 L.Ed.2nd 814, 820].)

ALL OF THE ABOVE HAPPENED IN MY STOP! Looks like a lawsuit for false arrest would stick!
 

mahkagari

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
, ,
This is deplorable. The adjectives for that word I'd like to use are not fit for polite company. Until OC is more normalized, I understand LEO's need to contact MWAG calls. I don't support it, but I understand it. But 10 cruisers? 10??? TEN??? T-E-N??? THAT is how Jeffco spends their resources?? For gods' sakes! I agree with the poster who noted this probably scared the bejeebers out of people more than an OC!

That aside, the guy has the cajones to say to basically another badge, "what gives you the right to carry"??? I wonder how he'd feel when he needs medical attention from one of your guys but they can't send you out because he'd have your means of defense taken away.

Did this make the news?

"10 Jeffco Sheriff vehicles armed with assault rifles stopped a bus because a mall security officer saw a MWAG board a bus. The man was detained and turned out to be a tactical paramedic with the same authority to carry a gun as a police officer."

I'd *love* to see the citzen's reaction to their resources being spent this way!
 
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