EPA considering petition for nationwide ban on lead-based sporting ammunition

There are two threads about this on the Washington state forum portion of these boards but I don't see it here in the nationwide portion of our forums.

In summary, a number of environmental groups have banded together and filed a petition for the EPA to have a comprehensive nationwide ban on lead-based sporting ammunition and fishing tackle. They're using junk since and wild hyperbole to back their claims up, but the EPA has 90 days to consider the petition. This is not legislation, it is administrative law.

Pursuant to the Toxic Substances Control Act (“TSCA”, 15 U.S.C. § 2601 et seq.), Petitioners Center for Biological Diversity, American Bird Conservancy, Association of Avian Veterinarians, Project Gutpile and Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility hereby petition the Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”) to revise rules governing toxic substances to ban the manufacture, processing and distribution in commerce of lead shot, bullets, and fishing sinkers. Petitioners request that the EPA consider this rulemaking pursuant to section 6(a) of TSCA.

TSCA requires that within 90 days after filing of a petition, the EPA shall either grant or deny the petition (15 U.S.C. § 2620(b)(3)). If the Administrator grants the petition, the Administrator shall promptly commence an appropriate proceeding. If the Administrator denies the petition, the Administrator shall publish in the Federal Register the Administrator’s reasons for such denial (15 U.S.C. § 2620(b)(3)).

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Here is a link to the final Petition filed to the EPA: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/.../pdfs/Final_TSCA_lead_ban_petition_8-3-10.pdf

Dave Workman from these forums posted a large write-up of this: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...hreatens-gun-owners-game-agencies-say-critics

Here is a list of our enemies:

Center for Biological Diversity
351 California Street, Suite 600
San Francisco, CA 94104
Contact: Jeff Miller
E-mail: jmiller@biologicaldiversity.org

American Bird Conservancy
1731 Connecticut Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20009
Contact: Michael Fry, Director of Conservation Advocacy
E-mail: mfry@abcbirds.org

Association of Avian Veterinarians
P.O. Box 811720
Boca Raton, FL 33841
Contact: Adina Rae Freedman, Executive Director
E-mail: aavcentraloffice@gmail.com

Project Gutpile
Contact: Anthony Prieto
E-mail: projectgutpile@gmail.com

(LOL WTF? Are you kidding me? "Project Gutpile!?" The EPA should deny the petition based on that name alone. There's no contact here other than an e-mail address and if you go to his blog at http://projectgutpile.blogspot.com/ he claims to be a Hunter. (Go figure he's from California.) Yes, I chose green deliberately to poke fun at this ass-hat.)

Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility
P.O. Box 4057
Georgetown, CA 95634
Contact: Karen Schambach, California Field Director
E-mail: capeer@peer.org

Divide and conquer. Either we all hang together or surely we will hang separately. Pastor Niemoller probably said it best with "First they came for..." the cop killer ammo, and I was silent, for I am not a cop killer. Then they came for the hunters ammo, and I was silent, for I am not a hunter. Then they came for personal protection ammo and there was no one to speak for me, all were jailed, silenced and dead.

I think they make all copper hollow points.
What about using steel with a copper jacket? Thats non toxic.

Really? Try a high speed injection and then tell us about its non-toxicity. Start with ~1200 fps.

VFORVENDETTA said:

I think they make all copper hollow points.
What about using steel with a copper jacket? Thats non toxic.

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Respectfully, you've missed the point. First let them prove that lead ammo and fishing tackle is an environmental danger. Conceding prior to evidence makes for really bad precedent, and very stupid laws.

PavePusher said:

Respectfully, you've missed the point. First let them prove that lead ammo and fishing tackle is an environmental danger. Conceding prior to evidence makes for really bad precedent, and very stupid laws.

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Very well said! Oh, if everyone would take your caution to heart the world would be richer. No ignorance wasted on DU or "cellphone radiation" or genetic manipulation of crops or alternative pathies. Thank you.

Unfortunately they may assert that the danger is proven by the least of the many standards of proof.

PavePusher said:

Respectfully, you've missed the point. First let them prove that lead ammo and fishing tackle is an environmental danger. Conceding prior to evidence makes for really bad precedent, and very stupid laws.

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+1

If lead is safe enough for kids toys then it's safe for the environment.

Doug Huffman said:

Very well said! Oh, if everyone would take your caution to heart the world would be richer. No ignorance wasted on DU or "cellphone radiation" or genetic manipulation of crops or alternative pathies. Thank you.

Unfortunately they may assert that the danger is proven by the least of the many standards of proof.

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Doug, you are either a poster child for willful ignorance, or you're one of Cass Sunstein's "plants". Your comments are often so off-target that I don't know why I even bother, except that when you make claims like this, it's just SOOOO easy to disprove...

Yeah, you're right. DU is as safe as mother's milk...

http://madisoncourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&subsectionID=253&articleID=11941

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf14.html

http://www.boston.com/news/educatio...6/08/12/is_an_armament_sickening_us_soldiers/


An GMO foods are as healthy as Granola...

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_11361.cfm

http://www.biotech-info.net/lancet_risks.html

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm


All that said, I do tend to agree with you on the lead thing...

Pure lead, or lead in commonly used alloys (printers type, shotgun pellets, wheel weights, fishing sinkers) tends to be VERY non-reactive and you can handle it all day long and never have any elevated lead in your body. I personally know old-school letterpress guys who have been setting type daily for DECADES and they actually have lower-than-average lead counts--and most of them have WAY lower lead counts than their grandchildren (which is sort of scary, when you think of it...) Lead Oxide (the kind used in paints) is the dangerous stuff--it absorbs through the skin and is EASILY absorbable through the mucus membranes, but unless you are a historical calligrapher, the chances of even ever seeing lead oxide these days are pretty slim...

The lead from our bullets on ranges has to be trapped in berms, and the EPA and most states very strictly regulate this. Interestingly enough, the Trap & Skeet world (which is generally a LOT more "big ticket", and therefore more the purview of the idle rich) has almost NO regulation in most states on mitigating or controlling their shot collection on ranges. Different laws for different classes, as per usual...

But out in the real world, hunters put far less lead back into the earth than has been taken out of it. There has never been an instance, ot my knowledge, of groundwater, wildlife, or plants being dangerously contaminated by hunters lead shot.

Now, the crap they spew out of hoses on military bases to clean jets, or the chem/bio/radioactive waste produced by most major universities, and the military industrial complex, or the average "carbon footprint" of Al Gore's personal lifestyle--that's another thing altogether...

http://www.environmentalhealthnews....-from-bullets-ends-up-in-wild-game-and-people

Might wanna use steel shot and Barnes ammo.

Yeah they regulate that lead into berms. They regulate it right back into my guns.

I cast my own bullets and spend a lot of time reclaiming wheel weights and range lead.

It's fun, and is recycling at it's finest.

The fact is lead is the ideal bullet material.

It's dense, allowing for heavier bullets with shorter lengths, it's very malleable allowing for proper expansion, and it's not very expensive.

Have you looked at the prices of barnes bullets and other all copper rounds? Yeah, they're pricey.

Also, lead styphnate is used in most primers. The lead free ones have a rather short useful life.

How would you like to have to cycle your ammo stash every few years? Didn't think so.

This is one of those things we must fight, or it will quickly be a rich man's game.

you didn't read the article I posted. It dealt with eating game. I was not recommending a Barnes bullet for plinking/target.

I did not read the article. You are right. However, I wasn't responding to you with my post.

BUT, since you mentioned it, I have now read the article you posted.

From the article you posted;

"Volunteers older than 65 years of age had the highest levels of lead in their blood averaging 1.77 micrograms/deciliter (ug/dl) – probably due to a lifetime of cumulative exposure."

1.77 micrograms/deciliter? Insignificant.

Again from the article;

"Individuals who ate wild game meat had an average of 1.27 ug/dl blood lead levels as compared to 0.84 ug/dl for non-consumers. Blood lead levels ranged from 0.18 - 9.82 ug/dl, so none of the volunteers tested exceeded the concern level of 10 ug/dl of blood set by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

Since I don't know how to bold anything on this forum, I'll just repost what I would have made bold.

"none of the volunteers tested exceeded the concern level of 10 ug/dl of blood set by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

From the Oregon Department of Human Services on lead poisoning in adults.

http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/lead/docs/AdultWhatDoesMyBLLMean.pdf?ga=t

So all the article says is you MIGHT have an INSIGNIFICANTLY higher blood lead level if you consume wild game taken with lead bullets.

Personally I will be hunting with my 45-70 this year. It will be throwing a 350 gr cast lead flat nosed slug at 1300 fps (maybe 1900 if I get the time to work up that load) and I am not one bit concerned about lead exposure.

I have my levels tested occasionally, and despite my frequent handling and melting of lead, and all the lead styphnate from the primers I use, I have never had more than 6 micrograms/deciliter in my blood.

It's really all about washing your hands once in a while and not eating lead.

And lead is actually very poorly absorbed into your body from eating it. More commonly it is breathed.

Now, I don't believe you were saying we should plink with barne's bullets.

Edited to add: Children are a completely different matter, but again personal hygiene and refraining from chewing on bullets goes a long way.

Speaking of inhalation, I would like to see a study that incorporates shooters who use indoor ranges often.

If bullets and fishing weights get banned, vehicle wheel weights have to go also.
I say we shut down all roads for a minimum of 30 days to ensure that any and all wheel weights are properly cleaned up.:banghead:

I would like to see that study as well joe.

thx997303 said:

1.77 micrograms/deciliter? Insignificant.

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Correct. According to both the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as well as the World Health Organization, only a blod lead level of 10 micrograms/deciliter is "cause for concern." The American Academy of Pediatrics define lead poisening as blood levels higher than 10 μg/dL, as well, but children are more affected than adults, as they're still developing.

What's going on here is that the liberal left EPA is attempting to take a bite out of shooting and guns altogether by using the only tool in their toolbox, that of "environmental contamination." The problem is, countless studies have shown no significant "environmental contamination" from the use of lead in bullets. The only issue with bullets comes from lead inhalation vapors in indoor firing ranges, and that only if they're not properly vented and even then only by those who frequent them or work there.

But that's a different issue, one which has already been addressed through legislation which requires proper ventilation for indoor ranges.

To get further into it, if you work in an environment that contains lead it isn't a red flag until you reach 25 micrograms/deciliter.

Really, I have never had a blood lead level over 6 micrograms/deciliter and I handle it almost daily.

My dad started casting bullets when he was 12 and died at 75 years of and when they did his autopsy his lead level was fine.

Mike Vanderboegh on the EPA's proposed ban on lead core ammunition:

Mike's comment left on the official EPA website:

Regarding the proposed ban on lead core ammunition, I think I speak on behalf of three percent of American gun owners when I say that should it be made into law, we will be happy to return it to the federal government one round at a time.

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:lol: :banana: