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Thread: Told I Can't Carry When Off The Clock

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Told I Can't Carry When Off The Clock

    Some months ago my store manager at the gas-station I work at told me that I could not open carry when off the clock in her store. I have abided by this until a few days ago, in fear of termination. The store manager said that I had to abide by company policy even when off the clock. Well I finnaly called the area manager a few days ago his receptionist told me that I could carry when off the clock. I fear reprisals will come but if they do to bad i'll have to find another job.

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    The state of Missouri is an "employment at will" state. That means you nor your employer needs a reason to terrminate employment.

    Despite whjat you were told at the regional level, your store manager is an agent of that company. If you do disregard his word, he has every right to toss you from the store and fire you. While the regional team may have backed you over the phone, rest assured, they will back him if he sends terrmination paperwork in on you.

    Rights do not exist at work, rights are protected only against the government intrusion, not private persons or companies. They are allowed to regulate your speech, your right to even bring a weapon onto their property, even the parking lot. They can not regulate the actions of the public in the parking lot, but they can the employees.

    This is one of the things being worked on at the legislative level.

    Your a grown man who makes his own call, but in this economy and high rate of unemployment, you might want to think long and hard before defying your boss's request. Why even visit the store and give them your dollars if they are not willing to grant you the rights guaranteed, shop elsewhere.

    Good luck with your chosen path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    The state of Missouri is an "employment at will" state. That means you nor your employer needs a reason to terrminate employment.

    Despite whjat you were told at the regional level, your store manager is an agent of that company. If you do disregard his word, he has every right to toss you from the store and fire you. While the regional team may have backed you over the phone, rest assured, they will back him if he sends terrmination paperwork in on you.

    Rights do not exist at work, rights are protected only against the government intrusion, not private persons or companies. They are allowed to regulate your speech, your right to even bring a weapon onto their property, even the parking lot. They can not regulate the actions of the public in the parking lot, but they can the employees.

    This is one of the things being worked on at the legislative level.

    Your a grown man who makes his own call, but in this economy and high rate of unemployment, you might want to think long and hard before defying your boss's request. Why even visit the store and give them your dollars if they are not willing to grant you the rights guaranteed, shop elsewhere.

    Good luck with your chosen path.
    Agreed. I would not shop there. Protect your job, they are hard to find. Unless you are young, single and know where you can crash out... This is not the hill to die on if you have a family of your own.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Nearly everything we do in life is a compromise in one way or another. When we choose to work for Company-X, we are basically saying that the compensation we receive from them is worth compromising X-hours per day, X-amount of time it takes us each day to drive or otherwise transport ourselves back and forth to work, as well as personal values, great or small, we may have to compromise in order to remain employed. For example, some smokers work in businesses where smoking is not permitted; that's a compromise. Or an atheist might work for a church; that's a compromise.

    Only you can decide if the compromise is worth remaining employed or not. Keep in mind, like LMTD said, Missouri is a "work at will" state. You are NOT entitled to a job in this state and right now is probably not the best time to be unemployed.

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    <SARCASM>You could always stage a robbery in order to get them to realize they needs guns there....or just do what they say.</SARCASM>

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    (This Usmc's Older Brother Typing This And My Spelling Sucks, Sorry)
    Today After Reciving A Call From the District Manger Informing My Store Manger That the Only Way She Could Prevent Me From Carrying A Weapon On My Own Time Was To Put Up "No Weapons Allowed"
    Signs She Posted Said Signs in Full Public View
    I Apritate Everyones Responce And i Know I Am Taking A Risk.
    What I Would Like To Do Is Request That All the People In this Thread Call Flood The Main Office At:314-738-9900 And Inform Them Of Your Decistion Not To Shop At A Convience Store That Robs You Of Your Right To Self Defince And Self Preservation.
    I Would Also Ask You If You Do So, Not To Refrince My Perticular Case In Conclusion I Apritate Everyones Help And Feed Back. The Store Is Petromart In Villa Ridge Missouri.
    Last edited by usmcbess; 08-17-2010 at 01:55 AM.

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    Guess you can't edit the title any more.

    This is a significant hazard we face, further restrictions.

    I would suggest that this indeed means your boss is a genuine holophobe and there is NOTHING you can do to change it. She is so scared of a gun, the fact that you are a nice guy, good worker what ever makes no difference at all, she is still scared to death.

    I am not sure I see any point in calling myself and I think they are going to know you put folks up to calling since you have been making a bit of a stink about it. There is a saying that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" but it has a sister saying as well "it is also the first one to get replaced" and that is reality now days.

    Due to the fact that if I was the regional manager and I had an employee bucking the system a bit and the manager was objecting, I would likely not appreciate the employee putting my phone number on the net and getting me 500 phone calls so I would fire them for setting up the harassment.

    For that reason I am refraining from calling, I do not want to be a part of your losing your job, as mean and nasty as some think I can be, I do give thought to others and this just seems like it could harm you much more than help you.

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    Newbie crisisweasel's Avatar
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    I am confused by this:

    Some months ago my store manager at the gas-station I work at told me that I could not open carry when off the clock in her store.
    Employers have at times attempted to regulate private time behavior, such as not smoking in one's own home.

    Is the manager saying you can't open carry anywhere because they have some issue with guns and "employee image," or are they saying you just can't carry in the store itself?

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    (This Usmc's Older Brother Typing This And My Spelling Sucks, Sorry)
    Today After Reciving A Call From the District Manger Informing My Store Manger That the Only Way She Could Prevent Me From Carrying A Weapon On My Own Time Was To Put Up "No Weapons Allowed"
    Signs She Posted Said Signs in Full Public View
    I Apritate Everyones Responce And i Know I Am Taking A Risk.
    What I Would Like To Do Is Request That All the People In this Thread Call Flood The Main Office At:314-738-9900 And Inform Them Of Your Decistion Not To Shop At A Convience Store That Robs You Of Your Right To Self Defince And Self Preservation.
    I Would Also Ask You If You Do So, Not To Refrince My Perticular Case In Conclusion I Apritate Everyones Help And Feed Back. The Store Is Petromart In Villa Ridge Missouri.
    Also, in this case, the District Manager is wrong. The store manager could simply inform you verbally, one time, that you are not allowed to carry a firearm into his/her store ever, for any reason, and from that point forward, you could not. A person with authority over private property does NOT need a sign to restrict who can or can't enter and with what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crisisweasel View Post
    I am confused by this:



    Employers have at times attempted to regulate private time behavior, such as not smoking in one's own home.

    Is the manager saying you can't open carry anywhere because they have some issue with guns and "employee image," or are they saying you just can't carry in the store itself?
    I read it as when he's off the clock and at the gas station hanging out during his off hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    You could always stage a robbery in order to get them to realize they needs guns there....or just do what they say.
    I would like think that such stupidity doesn't exhist on this like minded site.

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    I'm pretty sure the "stage a robbery" line is a joke.

    Kinda' tasteless. But a joke.

    The follow up question you should ask your manager is: "Since you hold such sway over my privately exercised civil rights, what church am I required to attend, and whom am i required to vote for?"

    Since they feel they can dictate one civil right, why not a few more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    SNIP... if I was the regional manager and I had an employee bucking the system a bit and the manager was objecting, I would likely not appreciate the employee putting my phone number on the net and getting me 500 phone calls so I would fire them for setting up the harassment.

    For that reason I am refraining from calling...
    +1

    I'm not sure this is a fight to pick with one's employer unless one is genuinely willing to find another job. In which case, why not just find another job.

    It is not going to help your job prospects to have to write forever on your job applications, "fired for wanting to bring gun onto company property."

    I would just let it go. Resume harmony in the workplace. And quietly look for another job. And, just not visit the job outside of work hours.

    This is too easy for the employer to win. And, losing has too much cost with regard to future job applications, and when a future prospective employer calls your old employer.

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    lmtd,carry on parking lot at work

    the state of mo law states that no employer may resrtict workers on the parking lot with weapons in their cars, they can only restrict in the actual building it self, businesses can not control what you have in your car.

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    the reason

    also the reason why they can not control what you have in your car in the parking lot is because it is not their car, if it was then can can say no guns in the car.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarryinmo View Post
    the state of mo law states that no employer may resrtict workers on the parking lot with weapons in their cars, they can only restrict in the actual building it self, businesses can not control what you have in your car.
    Are you sure? Where, exactly, would one find that in our statutes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    Some months ago my store manager at the gas-station I work at told me that I could not open carry when off the clock in her store. I have abided by this until a few days ago, in fear of termination. The store manager said that I had to abide by company policy even when off the clock. Well I finnaly called the area manager a few days ago his receptionist told me that I could carry when off the clock. I fear reprisals will come but if they do to bad i'll have to find another job.
    Write corporate and get permission. Keep it with you at all times. Carry concealed if you have the permit. This is yet another reason why CCW should be exercised, but some just don't seem to understand that we need to get the laws changed BEFORE we start pushing the envelope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarryinmo View Post
    the state of mo law states that no employer may resrtict workers on the parking lot with weapons in their cars, they can only restrict in the actual building it self, businesses can not control what you have in your car.
    You are incorrect, that change in the law has yet to be made.

    A retail business may not restrict the public from having a gun in the parking lot and it is not criminal for having a gun in the parking lot, but they can without any doubt fire any employee for having a gun locked in a case locked in the trunk of a car on the parking lot.

    If your employee handbook restricts it or your boss just flat out says so, you as an employee are risking your job and will indeed be fired for cause if you bring a gun to work and leave it in your car. They can not fire you for having it in the car if you park on the street, but if you park on their property as the law sits now, they can and some already have lost the battle when they were fired for it.

    They can also insist you allow them to search the car, your 4a rights are with the government not private persons or companies and while they may not be able to force you to allow it, they can fire you for not letting them.

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    You are incorrect...
    I always try to leave that part out of my replies. I've learned that all it really serves to do is make the recipient feel wrong, which just gets in the way of getting him to look at what I have to say and judge it on its own merits. Sorta like giving a guy a dirty magnifying glass before inspecting the gem I want to sell him. I'm just making it harder on myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    Write corporate and get permission. Keep it with you at all times. Carry concealed if you have the permit. This is yet another reason why CCW should be exercised, but some just don't seem to understand that we need to get the laws changed BEFORE we start pushing the envelope.
    i believe he only OC, mainly b/c i think he under 23 but i could be wrong on the age, but concealing it dosent really solve the problem. i read several of his posts, and i think he would have just as much of an issue being forced to conceal his gun as his right to even carry his gun. i know your really into the CCW is the way to go, but i have a feeling he really into the OC movement and he wouldnt be satisified with concealing it. so the CCW route wouldnt be much of a use for him.

    now his decision to risk his job might not be the place i choose to fight for my OC carry, but i think he has made the decision to make it his fight. and he is not pushing the envolope on anything really besides his job. thats his choice, let him lose his job if he wants to. if knowing he fought for his right to carry makes him happier then having a job, good for him. just hopefully he dosent have to sell his gun to to eat after he dosent have a job to provide food:P

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    The bigger question is: who the hell wants to go to work on their off hours? :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    The bigger question is: who the hell wants to go to work on their off hours? :-)
    Lol I agree with that. I learned to avoid going to the gas station i worked at cuz then they always wanted help with something

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I always try to leave that part out of my replies. I've learned that all it really serves to do is make the recipient feel wrong, which just gets in the way of getting him to look at what I have to say and judge it on its own merits. Sorta like giving a guy a dirty magnifying glass before inspecting the gem I want to sell him. I'm just making it harder on myself.
    Good point, never really entered my mind.

    I was not exercizing my abilities to be reude there at all. If frustration showed through, it is my frustration with the simple fact that he is not right but he SHOULD be.

    My car is my personal property, what is inside it, out of view, should be of no concern or impact on my employment what so ever and that is one of the laws that has been worked on for a few years. Unfortunatly it has not been fixed yet and the issue always revolved around the employment at will thing, there is no effective way for the state to tell the employer that they can't regulate something in their own rules at the same time employers have no business telling employees what they can store inside and out of sight in their own personal property.

    They will always likely have no changes to this as no one is REQUIRED to drive onto their lot, it is consentual and in consenting you agree to all their rules whether you like them or not and as an employment at will state, you are always free to quit.

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
    I would like think that such stupidity doesn't exhist on this like minded site.
    Such stupidity exHists when people fail to recognize sarcasm, or proper spelling and grammar when making such accusations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    Such stupidity exHists when people fail to recognize sarcasm, or proper spelling and grammar when making such accusations.
    Sarcasm does not show well in the printed word of internet posts. In fact, your comment appears to suggest it as a valid course of action, and may well be interpreted as such. Now if someone DID take that course of action and mentioned your post........ Expect someone to come calling.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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