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Pathetic Police at Stilly Festival of the River

n16ht5

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Feb 14, 2009
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Well, rode the bike down to the festival today with the wife after swimming in our hole. Threw my PF9 into a IWB on my shorts (no shirt) before we went. Was hot, and the PF9 is annoying in a pocket of my shorts. While we were there two police came up to us about 40 minutes in and one said (grabbed me by the arm actually, and got all official sounding) "Excuse me, is that open carry or concealed?"
"Open I would say. Why?"
"Well, it's inside your waistband, so it's not open and it's not concealed. You need to either cover it up or put it in a holster like mine (shows off his gun and holster). Do you have a CPL?"
"It doesn't matter, I am open carrying. If you think it's concealed, then yes I have a CPL."
"Well it's not concealed because I can see it and it's not open carrying because you don't have it in a holster. You can't do that."
(I am thinking.. oh man, are you kidding? I start to laugh.)
"Uh, ok. What law says that? I don't remember reading anything about not open and not concealed carry..."
"I'm sure it's in one of the laws, it probably says on the back of your CPL card."
"No, I have not seen that said anywhere in the laws. I can carry it how I want. I have a CPL if you think it's concealed." (They were of no interest to look at it or ID)
"What kind of holster is that? What did it say on the package when you bought it?"
"Uncle mikes inside the waistband."
"No, what did it say? It said concealed. Now you need to put it in your pocket or cover up or we are going to make you leave."
"I can't just pull out my gun in public. Are you kidding?"
"It's okay, were right here."
"Alright, whatever makes you feel better (laughing at him. I have a pocket holster in my pocket.) I'll grab it by the grip and put it in my pocket, alright. (I pull it slowly and put it in my pocket holster, slip it into my pocket.)"
"Thanks. that's better."
"Does that make you feel better?"
"Yes. (They walk off)"

This was in the middle of a bunch of stands. That was what I could remember. I didn't feel like making a big stand and making too much of an arse of myself, so I made fun of them as they looked like total A-holes to everyone.

We came back later and I took my G20, but didn't see them. No one else seemed to care the whole time. Whatever.
 
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END_THE_FED

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
925
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
"Am I being detained or am I free to go?"...... "Im not being detained?"......."Well then I wish to end this voluntary interaction now"
"I respectfully thank you for your opinion and advice and bid you good day sir"
 
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SpyderTattoo

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May 22, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
Yeah, sorry to say this bro, but you pretty much punked-out there. Tell them that you want to see their supervisor and show you where there is any law that says you have to have your gun in an Outside the Wasteband holster to be open carrying.
 
6

69Charger

Guest
Police folk are not good for your blood pressure. :)
Well not mine any hoo. LOL
Hope they went back to school.
Dave
 

massivedesign

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
865
Location
Olympia, Washington, USA
I think you did well... You gave them a little run for the $$. The only thing I would have done is get names and contact a supervisor later.

There are times, even when OC'ing or CC'ing, that even though we carry for the cause, we also carry because it's just what we do, and its in our blood. There are times where you don't feel like going down "that road" again with another individual / police / manager etc.

Kudos.
 

Hammer

Regular Member
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Jun 9, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
IMHO, there is not a more poorly informed group of people at large than LEO's. Once they get a badge, they seem to be able to make it up as they go along. Unfortunate. What'd be cool is if, each time they were wrong, they had to pay. Say, a day's wages just for sake of discussion. THEN there might be more time and effort given to knowing WTF they are talking about. As it is, color of authority seems to be sufficient.
 

joejoejoe

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
319
Location
Vancouver, WA
I don't know if I am ready to put an arrest on my record. Last time the police told me something that was wrong, I contacted the Sheriff and he apologized to me and scheduled a training session for his officers. More power to ya if you are willing to go the extra mile. Maybe one day I will be man enough to take that step. Just like any movement forward with our rights, it's a fight.

Joe~
 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
n16ht5;1332272"What kind of holster is that? What did it say on the package when you bought it?" "Uncle mikes inside the waistband." "No said:
to think I've been following the the RCW'S, when it fact it's the manufactures packaging I'd best be obeying.
 

n16ht5

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Feb 14, 2009
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I guess I should have taken it all the way. I just didn't want to look like an jerk as a carrier in front of all of the people. The police made themselves to be pretty huge a holes by the time they walked off. Next time I get hassled in public I won't let it go. Thanks for the input guys.
 

Ruby

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
1,201
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
Those LEOs would be funny if they weren't so pathetically ignorant.

I had a run in myself with the local Renton PD this past Saturday. It was a traffic violation; I changed lanes in front of the officer and he said I almost hit him. Still think he was in my blind spot. So he pulls me over(this is my first encounter with a LEO while open carrying) comes up to the car and I informed him I was armed; didn't know at the time that I didn't have to. I am a lefty so he would have seen it anyway. He asked for my DL, registration, and insurance. Then he informed me that he was going to remove my gun and I could have it back when we were done. I told him he DID NOT have my permission to take my gun; he ignored me. He then reached into the car, unsnapped the retention strap, unholstered my gun and laid it on the roof of the car. Then he went and did his check, came back and unloaded my gun! I told him that it is a 1911 and not to lower the hammer. He was polite and professional and so was I. At no time was I at threat to him. I can understand that it was for officer safety, but I still didn't like it and didn't appreciate him violating my 4th A rights. Unfortunately, I didn't have my recorder on, so I didn't record the conversation. Like I said, I understand why he did it; he has no way of knowing my intentions, but it still didn't feel good. Someone who is going to use a weapon against a LEO sure isn't going to inform them first. So I'll just chalk it up to experience; I wasn't going to get into an altercation and he apparently has the right to do what he did. I can tell that life while OCing is going to be interesting!
 

Tawnos

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Jun 4, 2008
Messages
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Washington
Those LEOs would be funny if they weren't so pathetically ignorant.

I had a run in myself with the local Renton PD this past Saturday. It was a traffic violation; I changed lanes in front of the officer and he said I almost hit him. Still think he was in my blind spot. So he pulls me over(this is my first encounter with a LEO while open carrying) comes up to the car and I informed him I was armed; didn't know at the time that I didn't have to. I am a lefty so he would have seen it anyway. He asked for my DL, registration, and insurance. Then he informed me that he was going to remove my gun and I could have it back when we were done. I told him he DID NOT have my permission to take my gun; he ignored me. He then reached into the car, unsnapped the retention strap, unholstered my gun and laid it on the roof of the car. Then he went and did his check, came back and unloaded my gun! I told him that it is a 1911 and not to lower the hammer. He was polite and professional and so was I. At no time was I at threat to him. I can understand that it was for officer safety, but I still didn't like it and didn't appreciate him violating my 4th A rights. Unfortunately, I didn't have my recorder on, so I didn't record the conversation. Like I said, I understand why he did it; he has no way of knowing my intentions, but it still didn't feel good. Someone who is going to use a weapon against a LEO sure isn't going to inform them first. So I'll just chalk it up to experience; I wasn't going to get into an altercation and he apparently has the right to do what he did. I can tell that life while OCing is going to be interesting!

Now's a good time to start looking for a lawyer, as well as put in your request via FOIA for the officer's dashcam tapes. If he left the loaded and ready to go firearm on the roof of your vehicle after illegally depriving you of property it shows there was no fear of officer safety involved. If he ran the serial number, he performed an illegal search. A dashcam should show the first and maybe the second.
 

Hammer

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Jun 9, 2008
Messages
448
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
to think I've been following the the RCW'S, when it fact it's the manufactures packaging I'd best be obeying.

Don't it make ya wanna come back with some smart-a$$ reply
It said "made in the USA expressly to confound and confuse ignorant cops. Is it working?"
No, really, officer, that's a direct quote!
 

Ruby

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May 5, 2010
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Renton, Washington, USA
Now's a good time to start looking for a lawyer, as well as put in your request via FOIA for the officer's dashcam tapes. If he left the loaded and ready to go firearm on the roof of your vehicle after illegally depriving you of property it shows there was no fear of officer safety involved. If he ran the serial number, he performed an illegal search. A dashcam should show the first and maybe the second.

I appreciate the advice, but I don't have the money or time to pursue it. He did not give me a ticket, just a verbal warning. He did leave it loaded on the roof of my car, but it was out of my reach. He did not unload it until just prior to returning it to me. I don't think he ran the serial number because he didn't take it to his patrol car, at least I don't think he did. I heard him pick it up when he came back to my car, heard him rack the slide and empty the chamber. I posted about it on the South Sound OC thread here on the Washington forum. Gogodawgs said that they do have the right to do that for officer safety. It was a little upsetting because no one has ever taken my gun away from me before. I sure didn't like it even though I understand his reasoning. Until he runs my license and knows that I'm not a criminal he is going to protect himself and I don't blame him. He wants to go home at night too. I just hate that it was at the expense of my rights. If it were to happen again then I would definitely pursue it. Being new to OC, I really wasn't prepared to deal with it, other than to tell him he didn't have my permission to take it.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
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Oct 25, 2009
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
Carry several...

Now I carry more than one gun in the car. Sometimes 3 or more on any given day. I wonder what would happen if I said..."officer, there is one on my hip, one in the center console, one in the glove box...."

That might be an interesting conversation for a routine traffic stop.
 

jbone

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Jun 4, 2008
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WA
Don't it make ya wanna come back with some smart-a$$ reply
It said "made in the USA expressly to confound and confuse ignorant cops. Is it working?"
No, really, officer, that's a direct quote!

We need a manufacture to brand a new holster as "OCEAL" I wonder if he has a Spork usage issues?
 

rickomatic

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Jul 18, 2007
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"IMHO, there is not a more poorly informed group of people at large than LEO's."

Just because they carry a gun does not mean that they are informed on that topic. I recently went shooting with a cop friend of mine and a couple of his cop friends. My friend is adequately informed on firearms, but they are mostly just a tool to him, although he does like to target shoot with me on occasion. The 2nd guy is great. He is the former head of the SWAT team for a large WA county. (names withheld to protect the innocent..... :) )
The third guy is a seargent with the same agency.He is a great guy too. I really like all 3 of them.
While I was shooting my S&W 642 with Crimson Trace grips he was absolutely amazed. His exact words were..."Wow...that is so cool. I've never seen anything like that before. That is really really cool!!"
Just proves that a lot of them consider firearms as just another tool of the trade. A rudimeantry knowledge is all that's needed to get through the job.
However. I understand the frustration that comes through when one of them displays their ignorance of either a particular firearm or laws pertaining to such when in an official capacity. Perhaps they should teach more about the law, and firearms in the academy rather than focus so much on "staying in control" of a situation.
 

amlevin

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Feb 16, 2007
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Now I carry more than one gun in the car. Sometimes 3 or more on any given day. I wonder what would happen if I said..."officer, there is one on my hip, one in the center console, one in the glove box...."

That might be an interesting conversation for a routine traffic stop.

Nah, in this scenario you would be REQUIRED to have a CPL (unless all unloaded) and you would also have to show it to him if he asked.

n16ht5 could have run into Tribal Cops. Not "quite" the same as sheriff's deputies or Arlington PD when it comes to smarts.

BTW, Only on given days? Some of us believe in every day.
 
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Tawnos

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Jun 4, 2008
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Until he runs my license and knows that I'm not a criminal he is going to protect himself and I don't blame him.

The only problem I have with that is that he left a weapon readily accessible, loaded, etc while he turned his back to you and went back to his car. If it were truly for officer safety, he should have put the gun further out of reach - on your trunk, on his hood, etc. Somewhere where you couldn't be out of the car and in possession, ready to fire, within 1.5 seconds.
 
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