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Thread: Palmyra ordinance..any thoughts

  1. #1
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    Palmyra ordinance..any thoughts

    so i looked up some local ordanices and found this....

    9.02 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING FIREARMS AND GUNS PROHIBITED.

    (1) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the Village or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.

    (2) The Chief of Police may grant a permit for such use for any lawful purpose, such as pest extermination, to any adult resident of the Village for not more than 30 days, provided further any person over the age of 16 years may discharge an air gun when under the supervision of an adult.

    (3) No person shall in the territory adjacent to the Village discharge any firearm in such manner that the discharge shall enter or fall within the Village.

    does that mean no open carry in the village????? any help would be great

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    "does that mean no open carry in the village????? any help would be great"
    The carry portion of the law is pre-empted by state law. In other words it is unenforcable.
    Just remember the 5 places you can't carry.
    Cars, bars, state parks, government buildings, and the 1000' school zone.
    Last edited by Serpent; 08-16-2010 at 11:55 AM.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Before Doug jumps in.

    It is on the books so they can issue a ticket and give you a hard time, however, when you challenge it in court they would eventually loose.

    So.... What you need to do is write a letter to your alderman/mayor/president and tell them it is unenforceable and would like it removed from the books.

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    what does pre-empted by state law mean???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorin21 View Post
    what does pre-empted by state law mean???
    Preempted

    I just couldn't resist. All in good fun of course.
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    I did not mention § 66.0409 as "preempt[ing] enforcement" because that is not true of any part of § 66.0409 EXCEPT § 66.0409(4)(b).
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Wisc. Stats.
    § 66.0409(4)(b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.
    § 66.0409 in large part preempts firearms ordinances by municipalities but does not disallow enforcement except as above.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    66.0409
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorin21 View Post
    what does pre-empted by state law mean???

    66.0409 Local regulation of firearms. (1) In this section:
    (a) “Firearm” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (c).
    (b) “Political subdivision” means a city, village, town or
    county.
    (c) “Sport shooting range” means an area designed and operated
    for the practice of weapons used in hunting, skeet shooting
    and similar sport shooting.
    (2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision
    may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates
    the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping,
    possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting,
    registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including
    ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or
    resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than,
    a state statute.
    (3) (a) Nothing in this section prohibits a county from imposing
    a sales tax or use tax under subch. V of ch. 77 on any firearm
    or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components,
    sold in the county.
    (b) Nothing in this section prohibits a city, village or town that
    is authorized to exercise village powers under s. 60.22 (3) from
    enacting an ordinance or adopting a resolution that restricts the
    discharge of a firearm.
    (4) (a) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision
    from continuing to enforce an ordinance or resolution that is in
    effect on November 18, 1995, and that regulates the sale, purchase,
    transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing,
    transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of
    any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and
    reloader components, if the ordinance or resolution is the same as
    or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
    (am) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision
    from continuing to enforce until November 30, 1998, an ordinance
    or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and
    that requires a waiting period of not more than 7 days for the purchase
    of a handgun.
    (b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17,
    1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase,
    transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation,
    licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm
    or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components,
    and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar
    to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal
    effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance
    or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.
    (c) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision
    from enacting and enforcing a zoning ordinance that regulates the
    new construction of a sport shooting range or when the expansion
    of an existing sport shooting range would impact public health and
    safety.
    (5) A county ordinance that is enacted or a county resolution
    that is adopted by a county under sub. (2) or a county ordinance
    or resolution that remains in effect under sub. (4) (a) or (am)
    applies only in those towns in the county that have not enacted an
    ordinance or adopted a resolution under sub. (2) or that continue
    to enforce an ordinance or resolution under sub. (4) (a) or (am),
    except that this subsection does not apply to a sales or use tax that
    is imposed under subch. V of ch. 77.
    History: 1995 a. 72; 1999 a. 150 s. 260; Stats. 1999 s. 66.0409.
    This section does not prohibit municipalities from enacting and enforcing zoning
    ordinances that apply to sport shooting ranges. Town of Avon v. Oliver, 2002 WI App
    97, 253 Wis. 2d 647, 644 N.W.2d 260, 01−1851.
    So.... The gist of this state law is that laws passed by a political subdivision that isn't the state cannot be more restrictive than the state law when it applies to most firearm regulations.

    In Palmyra's case

    9.02 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING FIREARMS AND GUNS PROHIBITED.

    (1) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the Village or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.

    (2) The Chief of Police may grant a permit for such use for any lawful purpose, such as pest extermination, to any adult resident of the Village for not more than 30 days, provided further any person over the age of 16 years may discharge an air gun when under the supervision of an adult.

    (3) No person shall in the territory adjacent to the Village discharge any firearm in such manner that the discharge shall enter or fall within the Village.
    9.02(1) would need to be changed to read:

    No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the Village or have any spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.

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    Street cops have no obligation to know state stautes in detail. They need only to abide to department rules, regulations and policies. If they suspect there is any law violation they can arrest you and "take you downtown" and let the big dogs straighten it out. As far as 66.0409 is concerned, If there is no discharge of a firearm involved, the most you will probably suffer for open carry is indignation, harassment, questioning and loss of time. Unfortunately that is often enough to deter many people from exercising their legal and constitutional rights. One of the more poweful weapons in a policeman's arsenal is "cop fear".

    My opinion- IANL

  9. #9
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    Well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Street cops have no obligation to know state stautes in detail. They need only to abide to department rules, regulations and policies. If they suspect there is any law violation they can arrest you and "take you downtown" and let the big dogs straighten it out. As far as 66.0409 is concerned, If there is no discharge of a firearm involved, the most you will probably suffer for open carry is indignation, harassment, questioning and loss of time. Unfortunately that is often enough to deter many people from exercising their legal and constitutional rights. One of the more poweful weapons in a policeman's arsenal is "cop fear".

    My opinion- IANL
    Should a citizen, hypothetically and evidently not even literate, be required to know statutes and ordinances, worse, in detail? Hell, they give up their rights trying to be nice to assuage the cop-fear.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    No, that citizen shouldn't be required to know and follow statutes that were not written to be understandable to the average citizen, are never taught, and are so complicated the trained officials disagree on them and their interpretation. How can a person be held accountable or agree to something they can't even read or understand. How Justly can a person be charged for something when those arresting frequently don't understand how or what they are arresting for? What sense does that make? Just more evidence of the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES, which is owned by foreign interests. It's run by the Private Federal Reserve Bank, which is ultimately owned and run by the UN. The court systems operate under all this and the Uniform Commercial Code(UCC). It's all about the contracts, money and control. I personally never agreed to be bound by those contracts, Statutes, and Acts. We are a Sovereign human being, and exist independent of Statutes or Acts. We had human rights long before the county, city or state decided to write Acts and Statutes. Those rights are inherent human rights that can't be taken away. There is lot's of online info on the Common Law and how to defend yourself as a Sovereign and how to claim your human rights back.
    Ever wondered why your not cited for breaking a Law? Your cited for a Statute, there is a BIG legal difference. Or why any government document has your name in all Caps? Do you write your name like that?
    Here is some info to think about that we aren't taught and they don't want us to know.

    http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/corp_us.htm
    http://www.apfn.org/APFN/fed_reserve.htm

    My ancestors never had to ask permission to pick up a stick or rock to defend himself from the thief attempting to steel his firewood. Neither should I need to have permission to wear my self defense weapon of choice on my hip or any other position on my sovereign body.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member grinner's Avatar
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    Moto, I've tried multiple times to get my way through this material, and frankly it's a bunch of long-winded gobbley-gook that takes forever, if ever, to get to the point.

    I have to believe that if there was something to this, it could be summarized in 30 seconds or less.

    Maybe it's the author who is making the subject matter obtuse, but I'm a fairly bright, open-minded, and somewhat patient reader, and I just can't tolerate either the aimless writing style or the ultimate lack of substance in these articles. I sincerely wish I could...

  12. #12
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    But still we tolerate screeds from correspondents less literate than government functionaries even.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 08-17-2010 at 07:16 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    It is very long complicated bit of information to work through. But how many years has the govt been wrapping it all up in red tape and deception. I think it has been designed that way. I have done a lot of research on the topic and see so many little connections in my court dealings that I have had. It has been kept hidden for so many years because of the control of the media. Not until the internet access have we had the info available to anybody. There are videos of court proceedings where people have used some of the info and trials were dismissed. I think there is a lot of truth in it. I'm going to keep researching to find out what I can. I know there are a lot of government officials that are honest and good people. But there is also a lot of brainwashing that happens. I have talked with officers etc about some of it. When you start thinking through it logically, many start to realize and question many things. When people step back and look at it with an open mind. It starts to become more clear. That's what I try to do.
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    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

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  14. #14
    Regular Member grinner's Avatar
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    Sorry. I meant "tolerate" as above my own threshold, not that I would set the bar for anyone else or wish that this wasn't posted. How much can I read and hope it goes somewhere before I give up? In this case, written by this author, not enough.

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