• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Small victory in Saint Clair, MI regarding preemption

smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
While not specifically OC related, this effects all who purchase firearms. I have CPL, so I didn't know that St Clair had implemented a purchase permit fee in 2009. My wife went to the PD a couple weeks ago to get 2 purchase permits and was charged $10 per permit. I thought this didn't sound right and looked into it. I notified the city manager that the city could not charge a permit fee due to Michigan Act 319 of 1990:
“A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.”
Michigan used to allow cities to charge an optional $5 processing fee for obtaining a License to Purchase. However MCL 28.423 was repealed by PA 381 of 2000.
The city manager checked with the city attorney who confirmed that I was correct. The $10 fee has been changed to a notary fee and it is now optional since you can notarize a document at ANY notary. My bank does it as a free service. I was told that a refund would be issued from the PD. It will be nice to get the $20 back.

... now i just have to get them to take down or modify the rules sign at the new skate park that says NO weapons are allowed.
 
Last edited:
T

thekunk47

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
93
Location
Clinton Township, Michigan, USA
park sign

smellslikemichigan said:
While not specifically OC related, this effects all who purchase firearms. I have CPL, so I didn't know that St Clair had implemented a purchase permit fee in 2009. My wife went to the PD a couple weeks ago to get 2 purchase permits and was charged $10 per permit. I thought this didn't sound right and looked into it. I notified the city manager that the city could not charge a permit fee due to Michigan Act 319 of 1990:
“A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.”
Michigan used to allow cities to charge an optional $5 processing fee for obtaining a License to Purchase. However MCL 28.423 was repealed by PA 381 of 2000.
The city manager checked with the city attorney who confirmed that I was correct. The $10 fee has been changed to a notary fee and it is now optional since you can notarize a document at ANY notary. My bank does it as a free service. I was told that a refund would be issued from the PD. It will be nice to get the $20 back.

... now i just have to get them to take down or modify the rules sign at the new skate park that says NO weapons are allowed.
Click to expand...
Send the city attorney a copy of michigan's preemption law.The NO FIREARMS sign is illegal and totally unenforceable.What is the name of the park.I'll contact them.
 
FatboyCykes

FatboyCykes

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
942
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
Good to hear, but i thought I remember there being a max of 10 dollars clause somewhere....Michigander or Dr.Todd or one of the other brians posted it awhile back.
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
here's exactly what the sign says

sign at the skate park states:
"This is an alcohol. weapon and drug free facility. Profanity, fighting, inappropriate noise levels, other acts of violence, destroying and defacing (graffiti) of public property and all other violations city ordinances for public park use are prohibited. Violators will be prosecuted."
http://www.cityofstclair.com/skate park guidelines.htm
so it's not exactly a "no firearms", but i contend that, obviously, "weapons" includes firearms. i did e-mail the city manager on it since there is no info on the city attorney. here's the response i got from the manager:
"I have spoken to the City Attorney who advises that the use of the word ‘weapon’ in the Park Guidelines is acceptable. He has also indicated that state law supersedes any local regulation or guideline in this matter."

in a previous email, the city manager did state that saint clair PD has been trained on firearms preemption and the legality of open carry. i've never had a problem or even been approached while OCing in saint clair.
 
Last edited:
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
FatboyCykes said:
Good to hear, but i thought I remember there being a max of 10 dollars clause somewhere....Michigander or Dr.Todd or one of the other brians posted it awhile back.
Click to expand...

the 10 dollar max applies to notary fees, however the PD cannot require you to get your permit notarized there. my wife just left the PD a few minutes ago with $20 in her hot little hands. she took a pic of the new sign and i'll post it later when i get home.
 
Last edited:
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
update to add promised picture

0816101408.jpg

sorry it took so long.
 
S

Small_Arms_Collector

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Eastpointe Michigan
smellslikemichigan said:
While not specifically OC related, this effects all who purchase firearms. I have CPL, so I didn't know that St Clair had implemented a purchase permit fee in 2009. My wife went to the PD a couple weeks ago to get 2 purchase permits and was charged $10 per permit. I thought this didn't sound right and looked into it. I notified the city manager that the city could not charge a permit fee due to Michigan Act 319 of 1990:
“A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.”
Michigan used to allow cities to charge an optional $5 processing fee for obtaining a License to Purchase. However MCL 28.423 was repealed by PA 381 of 2000.
The city manager checked with the city attorney who confirmed that I was correct. The $10 fee has been changed to a notary fee and it is now optional since you can notarize a document at ANY notary. My bank does it as a free service. I was told that a refund would be issued from the PD. It will be nice to get the $20 back.

... now i just have to get them to take down or modify the rules sign at the new skate park that says NO weapons are allowed.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the Skate Park in Eastpointe? I have already been to 3 Council meetings, and they still refuse to change it.
 
R

RenkaiWulf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Burton, MI
Bronson said:
It should be choose instead of "chose."

Morons.

These are the people we're trusting to handle our firearms records?

Bronson
Click to expand...

i know what you mean here burton PD mis-spelled my name on a purchase permit while she had my licence :banghead:
 
NHCGRPR45

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
smellslikemichigan said:
sure is. wouldn't it be nice if royal oak was this easy? this didn't even have to be addressed to the city council, just the city manager and attorney. :banana:
Click to expand...

Nope, The Royal Oak situation played out very well for us, personally I believe that our fight and win there has shown our determination for our cause. Also I believe it has greatly helped cities to look at the issue and just fold when we bring a Pre-emption issue before them. When they pushed so did we, with excellent results! Record numbers at AB&E despite the nay - sayers! No Royal Oak worked heavily in our favor!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top