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Thread: Proof and Hearsay, Should concealed carry permits be public? By Bruce Vielmetti, MJS

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    Proof and Hearsay, Should concealed carry permits be public? By Bruce Vielmetti, MJS

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/100741889.html
    Quote Originally Posted by MJS Vielmetti
    That's a tough question, since the answer would depend a lot on how hard and expensive it would be to obtain a permit. [ ... ] So what rates would we have in various counties here, assuming a $100 license fee and a 20-hour training course requirement? Would your estimate change much if the fact you had a permit was secret v. public?
    Comments:
    #
    BMWNN - Aug 16, 2010 2:42 PM
    Kinda of jumping ahead here aren't you. Walker hasn't been sworn in yet. (or are you writting "If I had a gun I wouldn't have been assulted Barrett" off.)
    #
    Living the High Life - Aug 16, 2010 2:52 PM
    I don't think it would make that big of a difference. If I had to have my name on a list that someone could look online and then see me without a name tag on, how would they know who I am? Why would it matter?
    #
    mrlundt - Aug 16, 2010 3:36 PM
    There are a lot of reasons you need to have a permit. I would want professionals with a defined need to have an exemption from this list.
    #
    Greg0412 - Aug 16, 2010 3:59 PM
    The simple answer here is.... "NO!"

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    CCW permit

    Why in the HELL should we have to PAY for a RIGHT? this is preposterous

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerettaFS92Custom View Post
    Why in the HELL should we have to PAY for a RIGHT? this is preposterous
    It seems as though most states don't reconize the 2nd amendment as giving us any rights. All but 3 states see ccw as a privilage. Shall not be infringed is not honored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    It seems as though most states don't reconize the 2nd amendment as giving us any rights. All but 3 states see ccw as a privilage. Shall not be infringed is not honored.
    after reading some of that on BSOnline I see some people don't know why the 2nd was even enacted !!!

    Only pertains to police and military ????
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
    Remember , Gun Control is " USING BOTH HANDS!"

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    hell with them then

    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    after reading some of that on BSOnline I see some people don't know why the 2nd was even enacted !!!

    Only pertains to police and military ????
    i will just oc then as i refuse to pay for this right. in the original SB there was language of a 15.00 "FEE" for maintaining gun ranges. hmm for the LEO and Air guard here in Dane county. well the employees are county workers, building and range paid for with tax dollars so i will OCOD and they can piss off
    Last edited by BerettaFS92Custom; 08-16-2010 at 10:22 PM.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Arrow Double Edged Sword

    Publishing permit holder's names is a double edged sword. On the one hand, some criminals might be tempted to rob a permit holder's home. However, this is not likely because if the permit holder is not home, his weapon is not home. And, if the permit holder is home, so is his weapon and the chance of the bad guy getting killed rises exponentially. I am sure that most, if not all, posters to this forum subscribe to the philosophy that all weapons not on our body are securely stored in a gun safe and ammo is likewise locked up. That is the rule in my house.

    On the other hand, the very liberals who would propose publishing permit holder's names would see the risks that they and their families could be attacked at home because the bad guys know which houses to absolutely avoid. They can use the published list to prepare an attack in advance and know if anyone in the household is a permit holder. (They may get surprised by a resident who has a firearm, but not a concealed carry permit.)

    The article made a point that the author missed. (This does not surprise me.) Yes, SLC has the most permits per population base and is one of the safest cities in the USA. It is safe BECAUSE 40 people per 1000 carry a handgun, not because of its' Mormon population. (Most Mormons in Utah are conservative and many own one or more firearms.)
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    The article made a point that the author missed. (This does not surprise me.) Yes, SLC has the most permits per population base and is one of the safest cities in the USA. It is safe BECAUSE 40 people per 1000 carry a handgun, not because of its' Mormon population. (Most Mormons in Utah are conservative and many own one or more firearms.)
    Mormon properties are gun free zones. I'm surprised criminals don't take advantage of it.

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    There should be no such thing as a handgun carry permit, but since there is I believe the information should be public. There is no such thing as a government which is not corrupt. Without the records being released to the public we will not be able to know to whom permits are issued. We'll not be able to know from whom the permits have been taken. There could be no investigation except by the State into why permits were not issued. No one but the State could find out how many permits were taken due to improper reasons. In fact there would be no way to discover if violent felons had been issued permits. It is a bad idea.
    The better idea is allow open or concealed carry of a firearm w/o the need for a permit.

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Not So

    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Mormon properties are gun free zones. I'm surprised criminals don't take advantage of it.
    You have been misinformed. It is not true that Mormon properties are gun free zones. The LDS Church has prohibited the carry of open or concealed weapons in "houses of worship". This includes their temple(s), but only applies in any other "Mormon Church or Chapel" while "worship" is taking place. It does not apply to any other Church owned property. That is why the "security personnel" at the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake all carry (mostly Glocks). They are easy to spot; white shirt, dark tie, dark dress pants and jacket, with ear-pieces and taking to their wristwatches. Quite an out of place sight in the summer when it is 100 F outside.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    OC is public. CCW won't make a difference. That is why we want Constitutional Carry like Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona. It is none of their GD business. If we do not pursue this with vigor, we will be screwing with these stupid laws until our great grandkids either lose their rights and guns or we grab hold of our rights 100% .

    What about "Shall Not Be Infringed" does anyone not understand. Either we have the un-infringed right to bear arms with out license or "permission" or we do not. If we do not, then we do not have a Bill of Rights. It is either yes or no. There are no gray areas in the Constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardballer View Post
    What about "Shall Not Be Infringed" does anyone not understand. Either we have the un-infringed right to bear arms with out license or "permission" or we do not. If we do not, then we do not have a Bill of Rights. It is either yes or no. There are no gray areas in the Constitution.
    Well said! Thanks

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    One only need to remember Katrina to understand why registration and permits and the public release of such is dangerous to our welfare and freedom. Soon after Katrina the New Orleans police armed with records of permits and registration conducted a massive raid on those holders and confiscated their firearms. Looters armed with information on which houses or businesses more than likely had firearms in their premisses knew exactly which places were easy marks.

    People do not need licenses or permits or disclosure of such in order to exercise a constitutional right. Matters not if that right is federal or state. Do any of you need to register or obtain a permit to use the very computer you are viewing this post on? Or do you have to provide information to the authorities so they can publish to the public that you have a computer? Of course not. You are protected by the First amendment of the U.S. constitution and Article I section 3 of the Wisconsin constitution. Should the Second amendment of the U.S. Constitutional and Article I section 25 of the Wisconsin constitution be of lesser value?

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    Every government record should be public.

    Therefore, consider carefully that which should be a government record.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Every government record should be public.

    Therefore, consider carefully that which should be a government record.
    +1000

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Every government record should be public.

    Therefore, consider carefully that which should be a government record.
    +1 quadzillion!!

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