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Thread: Another soon-to-be-deleted thread.

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Another soon-to-be-deleted thread.

    I'm sure this won't win friends or influence people, especially among the wealthy, elite, 'only ones' of the southeast; but have I ever been know to concern myself with such trifling sorts?

    Quote Originally Posted by My Email to CLEOs in Alachua County
    I am writing to determine your disposition in obedience to, or defiance of, the following sections of State Statutes.

    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--

    (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

    (2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:

    (a) A self-defense chemical spray.

    (b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
    (3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...20053#0790.053)

    Italicized emphasis added by me.

    And:

    790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

    (1) DECLARATION OF POLICY.--The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to promote firearms safety and to curb and prevent the use of firearms and other weapons in crime and by incompetent persons without prohibiting the lawful use in defense of life, home, and property, and the use by United States or state military organizations, and as otherwise now authorized by law, including the right to use and own firearms for target practice and marksmanship on target practice ranges or other lawful places, and lawful hunting and other lawful purposes.

    [unrelated paragraphs omitted for brevity]

    (3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    [unrelated paragraphs omitted for brevity]

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...n%2025#0790.25)

    And:

    790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.--

    (1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.

    (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...n%2033#0790.33)

    Shall I expect to be harassed, arrested, intimidated, detained, questioned, interrogated, or otherwise oppressed or attacked by yourself, or any of the officers under your command, in defiance of these statutes? Do you suspect that, in spite of your presumed willingness to enforce the law as written, other officers under your command may need more adequate training in order to avoid costly litigation under U.S.C. Title 42, 1983? I do not believe that Law Enforcement is granted authority to enforce Opinion, Political Interests, or Ignorance.

    I would like to bring to your attention that the practice of carrying a firearm, openly, without a permit of any kind, while fishing, camping, or hunting, or in transit to or from such, has already been determined lawful and is publicly practiced.

    It is not my intention to threaten legal action, but to educate and prevent the need for such. I hope we are on the same page. I have read Chapter 790 in it's entirety many times, and studied case law on this subject for over a decade. I'm not getting paid, with taxpayer money, to do that. I would hope that those charged with enforcement of the law, who are being paid with taxpayer money, would be aware of the law. At the very least, ignorance is no longer an excuse.

    I await your reply.
    There are indentations for easier reading in the original. I expect to be told that I should eat sh!t and die. I sent this to the Sheriff and the GPD by BCC.

    I wonder how long until I get a knock on my door this time?
    Last edited by ixtow; 08-16-2010 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Well, although the tone is a bit testy IMHO, the points are valid and deserve a response. The solution to all of this is that the legislature needs to provide teeth to 790.33, or by providing some method of challenging the constitutionality of codes and ordinances which conflict with that statute at no cost to the citizen, or at least to make the award of fees and costs part of the declaratory judgement statute.
    Last edited by Rich7553; 08-17-2010 at 01:41 PM. Reason: grammar correction

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Why do you think the thread would be deleted?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why do you think the thread would be deleted?
    That's my question as well. You asked a gun rights question and didn't attack any other member.

    Unless I am missing something, this thread will be here for a long time.


    John

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    That's my question as well. You asked a gun rights question and didn't attack any other member.

    Unless I am missing something, this thread will be here for a long time.

    John
    Because all it takes is for one of the high-and-mighty members to come along and declare it an attack upon them, hang the martyr sign around their own necks, etc... But if it isn't to be so this time, so much the better. Just because the shoe fits does not mean I'm forcing anyone to wear it. If they choose to put it on and show it off... That's not my doing. Lets not digress too far.

    I don't intend my 'tone' to be 'testy.' But my absolute loathing for LEOs might bleed through... I'll leave my experiences with dirty cops to another thread. I don't deny my 'attitude' is colored by this. I try to remember that hate is not a valid basis for anything.

    I appreciate any input. It's already sent, so re-wording is a dollar short and a day late. But it might serve to help others who would write a similar letter. FL may well need a form letter of similar construction to send to all CLEOs. The 'only ones' attitude is very well entrenched here. I don't have any hope for FL turning Yellow, and even Green is slim to none. But I'd love to eat my words.

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    COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal Attack

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    The more of your posts I read the more I say to myself: "I wonder if this guy has seriously considered getting professional psychiatric help?"
    Aw, that's cute. How dare I not flatter you with imitation. If you've nothing useful to add... Yeah. How much rope do I need to give you 3?

    It's nice to see you demonstrate yourselves to be precisely what you label me. Paging Dr. Phil....

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    COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal Attack
    Last edited by trooper46; 08-17-2010 at 01:17 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trooper46 View Post
    I think somebody needs their happy pills.....and a little nappy poo. Remember, the pink ones keep you from screaming.
    I'll have to defer to your expertise...

    Really? It's like being on a playground in kindergarten around here. Failure to grow up is a terrible badge of honor, I don't care if 'everyone is doing it.' You people just can't let a thread be useful if it isn't 'your own kind.' Pathetic.

    Only reminds me why I have no respect for society or those who so proudly comprise it.

    Another thread dragged down and disposed of by those who will allow no voice but their own. What a waste of bandwidth.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Even better. Since I'm diagnosed 'crazy,' I'm going to carry a banana in my holster.

    The line between genius and insanity is drawn exclusively by those who understand neither.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'm sure this won't win friends or influence people, especially among the wealthy, elite, 'only ones' of the southeast; but have I ever been know to concern myself with such trifling sorts?



    There are indentations for easier reading in the original. I expect to be told that I should eat sh!t and die. I sent this to the Sheriff and the GPD by BCC.

    I wonder how long until I get a knock on my door this time?
    Why should it be deleted? You make excellent points, don't act like a bootlicker for cops and speak up for what you--and I, btw, believe to be of value. Keep it up. And let us know what response you get from the pencil pushers.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Even better. Since I'm diagnosed 'crazy,' I'm going to carry a banana in my holster.

    The line between genius and insanity is drawn exclusively by those who understand neither.
    Well, at least you won't be hungry...stick a 1911 in your belt if your holster is occupied.

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    I've had the privilege of meeting ixtow and his son and shooting some of the NFA goodies he brought to the range a few years back ... I can assure you he is an upstanding Citizen.

    I'm not sure how he got screwed by Florida authorities, but there are bad apples in power everywhere, Florida is no exception.

    Florida law, as it relates to the the carry of arms, is blatantly unconstitutional. A holdover from the Jim Crow days perhaps. The ban on open carry will be lifted sooner or later. I give the ban no more than 5 years myself. Yes I'm optimistic. The ban's repeal can't come soon enough.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executive Assistant to the Alachua County Sheriff
    Mr. [my name spelled wrong],

    I apologize but I don’t understand your question. The deputies are familiar with the laws that they are charged with enforcing. If there is ever any question as to “interpretation” of any laws, we have a staff attorney who renders guidance.
    The questions are the sentences that end with a question mark and appear interrogative in nature, or seem to seek a response to a query.

    I realize I had a bit of 'fluff' in there, so I responded in a more specific fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by My Response
    I'll try to re-iterate.

    Are you and your Deputies aware of, and willing to comply with, the fact that Openly Carrying a Firearm while Fishing, Hunting, or Camping, or while in transit to or from these activities, is apparently legal?

    What is your and your Attorney's 'interpretation' of this rather plainly written law?

    What action, or inaction, will you or your deputies take in regard to a citizen doing so?

    Thank you.
    No response from GPD.
    Last edited by ixtow; 08-18-2010 at 10:37 AM. Reason: clarification

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Because all it takes is for one of the high-and-mighty members to come along and declare it an attack upon them, hang the martyr sign around their own necks, etc... But if it isn't to be so this time, so much the better. Just because the shoe fits does not mean I'm forcing anyone to wear it. If they choose to put it on and show it off... That's not my doing. Lets not digress too far.
    Well, no it doesn't. That only works if it IS an attack, like the one against you that you responded to. Report attacks instead of attacking back.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'll have to defer to your expertise...

    Really? It's like being on a playground in kindergarten around here. Failure to grow up is a terrible badge of honor, I don't care if 'everyone is doing it.' You people just can't let a thread be useful if it isn't 'your own kind.' Pathetic.

    Only reminds me why I have no respect for society or those who so proudly comprise it.

    Another thread dragged down and disposed of by those who will allow no voice but their own. What a waste of bandwidth.
    As to that, your responses are part of the problem.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    As to that, your responses are part of the problem.
    Since the moderator has clearly seen both, one must be at least a little curious why mine often disappear completely, yet those who choose to imitate the staff are given free reign.

    My responses exist lest there be no response at all. You're partly right. There shouldn't be anything for me to respond to. My responses are not the problem. They highlight the problem. And that, for those who prefer the imbalance, is a problem.

    By your logic, if someone were to attack me, I should dial 911 and hope for the best. Is it really that hard to follow what I'm doing there? I reflect my assailant. I always do. "Willfully Inarticulate." "Willfully Obtuse." You'll figure me out someday... I put excessive effort into making parity with my debate partner, such that the only difference is the point being argued. If that debate partner is an asshat... I'll leave no further breadcrumbs. Smart people 'get it.' Socially, we're all about taking excuses to attack, that's where money comes from. If you're smart and vicious, you pretend not to 'get it' as an excuse to attack and are probably very 'successful.' There are a few people here who 'get me' and aren't the senselessly predatory sort. It's a rare breed. Why must this always be a subject of conversation? I'm different, I have really good reasons for it, moving along...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Since the moderator has clearly seen both, one must be at least a little curious why mine often disappear completely, yet those who choose to imitate the staff are given free reign.
    If yours are reported and theirs are not, yours are likely to get deleted more than theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow
    My responses exist lest there be no response at all. You're partly right. There shouldn't be anything for me to respond to. My responses are not the problem. They highlight the problem. And that, for those who prefer the imbalance, is a problem.
    When you respond in kind, your responses ARE part of the problem. Report and ignore is the path to the best resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow
    By your logic, if someone were to attack me, I should dial 911 and hope for the best. Is it really that hard to follow what I'm doing there? I reflect my assailant. I always do.
    No, that is not the same. It is apples/oranges.
    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow
    "Willfully Inarticulate." "Willfully Obtuse." You'll figure me out someday...
    Those are very likely to be construed as personal attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow
    I put excessive effort into making parity with my debate partner, such that the only difference is the point being argued. If that debate partner is an asshat... I'll leave no further breadcrumbs.
    Then you ARE part of the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow
    Smart people 'get it.'
    I am smart. I "get it." I do not agree with your method.
    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow
    Socially, we're all about taking excuses to attack, that's where money comes from. If you're smart and vicious, you pretend not to 'get it' as an excuse to attack and are probably very 'successful.' There are a few people here who 'get me' and aren't the senselessly predatory sort. It's a rare breed. Why must this always be a subject of conversation? I'm different, I have really good reasons for it, moving along...
    No, we are not talking (or taking?) excuses to attack. In discussions like on this forum, there are no excuses for attacks, they are not desired. Once you respond to an attack with an attack, your response fits that metric, and is not desired. Smart people "get it," to mirror your comment with parity.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why do you think the thread would be deleted?
    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    That's my question as well. You asked a gun rights question and didn't attack any other member.

    Unless I am missing something, this thread will be here for a long time.


    John
    It appears that the answer to that is this:
    "Others will attack ixtow, and ixtow will respond with attacks, and the thread will get deleted."

    That appears to be the rational conclusion to the current discussion in this thread.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Since the moderator has clearly seen both, one must be at least a little curious why mine often disappear completely, yet those who choose to imitate the staff are given free reign.
    I'm different, I have really good reasons for it, moving along...
    Have you reviewed the posts in this thread recently?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Is it being suggested that the thread was "set up" to reach the specific goal of being deleted or locked?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I did not intend "attack you", as you put it. I simply made an irresistible and well humored joke. Why did I "attack" you might ask?

    Simple, you made a highly dramatic....and what could interpreted by some as whiny... post with very little explanation to warrant it besides your rants and ravings about the "elites of the southeast", who, from the response of your letter, haven't the foggiest idea what your talking about either. Where I come from, we call that being a drama queen...well that's not actually what we call it...but I can't say it on the forum.

    But instead of just being willing to a poke a little fun at yourself for doing so (i make fun of myself all the time), you just respond as if someone stole your candy bar. In doing so, the only message your sending to people is that you have some insecurities to deal with.

    Also, another friendly suggestion. If your going to write a letter to a LE agency or for other business, I highly suggest doing so in a more professional tone. Nobody likes reading a letter that is preemptively hostile in tone and whining about oppression without at least citing an example of when you've been oppressed by this particular department. In this inquiry, you go way beyond just asking a question. You are already implying that they engage in a number of illegal actions. This may even be true. But if your going get anywhere with these people, I suggest engaging them in a intelligent dialog that gives them at least some benefit of the doubt in the initial contact. Whining tone will not get you anywhere with the LEOs anymore than it will with me or other posters.


    John, if it's necessary to delete this post. Please at least leave the part about writing the letter. It's a serious piece of advice meant for his own good.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    No, it was set up to show that the primary content will be that of people harassing me and trolling me and accusing me of their own actions... I'll just keep giving them rope to prove it with, while trying to keep a little continuity to the Original Post.

    How dare I not be like them! How dare I not comply with their disagreement!

    The rules are applied to those who are not imitating the staff. Those who commit the crime of "Failure to Flatter."

    Those who are similar in lifestyle, beliefs, dress, money, etc., may do as they please with no consequence. Censorship by proxy of quagmire. Same tactic as the revolving prison system. If you let them go, they head back out there and give you excuses to seize more power. You don't have to do it, you use the willing criminals as pawns. If you've got buddies who are willing to go screw up every thread or comment written by 'the unclean,' you don't have to censor it yourself. That's too obvious... Simply apply 'the rules' unequally to suit your interests.

    No progress will be made in OC by anyone that The Staff doesn't like. Period. Don't ever do something that has the potential to steal the spotlight, even if you don't want it, unless you meet their so-called 'standards' of wealth, elitism, etc.

    Only 1 response has been posted in this thread that had anything to do with the OP. Almost all of the rest are personal attacks the severity of which I have been routinely censored for, yet these are not.

    It's a private forum. The owners can do as they like. But presenting themselves as balanced or even civil is a farce. Only their compatriots in elitism will be allowed to be useful in the cause. It makes me wonder if the architects' true motive is merely to create a new special interest niche to be the kings of. Another NRA that doesn't promote a Right for ALL, but for their selected 'only ones.' No intent to win, but to keep the fight going so the donations roll in for eternity. It is an educated speculation with a lot of evidence to suggest it.

    I organized a letter with citations of law, did not lick boots or try to sleep with the enemy, and sent it off for a response. I did not inform any news crews, or organize an 'event.' (not that there is anything wrong with that, just proving that I'm not trying to steal anyone's spotlight) Just me seeing what happens.

    That is not the approved MO, so look what happened... Mobbed by the usual suspects, no consequences. Told that it's my own fault! Again, isn't the foundation of this forum personal responsibility? How is it that I am responsible for what others are doing? It's only apples and oranges because I'm not an apple! The analogy is dead-on. If I misbehave, censored. If the pawns do, nothing happens. The only difference is that I'm not a wealthy elitist and make no bones about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    No, it was set up to show that the primary content will be that of people harassing me and trolling me and accusing me of their own actions... I'll just keep giving them rope to prove it with, while trying to keep a little continuity to the Original Post.

    How dare I not be like them! How dare I not comply with their disagreement!

    The rules are applied to those who are not imitating the staff. Those who commit the crime of "Failure to Flatter."

    Those who are similar in lifestyle, beliefs, dress, money, etc., may do as they please with no consequence. Censorship by proxy of quagmire. Same tactic as the revolving prison system. If you let them go, they head back out there and give you excuses to seize more power. You don't have to do it, you use the willing criminals as pawns. If you've got buddies who are willing to go screw up every thread or comment written by 'the unclean,' you don't have to censor it yourself. That's too obvious... Simply apply 'the rules' unequally to suit your interests.

    No progress will be made in OC by anyone that The Staff doesn't like. Period. Don't ever do something that has the potential to steal the spotlight, even if you don't want it, unless you meet their so-called 'standards' of wealth, elitism, etc.

    Only 1 response has been posted in this thread that had anything to do with the OP. Almost all of the rest are personal attacks the severity of which I have been routinely censored for, yet these are not.

    It's a private forum. The owners can do as they like. But presenting themselves as balanced or even civil is a farce. Only their compatriots in elitism will be allowed to be useful in the cause. It makes me wonder if the architects' true motive is merely to create a new special interest niche to be the kings of. Another NRA that doesn't promote a Right for ALL, but for their selected 'only ones.' No intent to win, but to keep the fight going so the donations roll in for eternity. It is an educated speculation with a lot of evidence to suggest it.

    I organized a letter with citations of law, did not lick boots or try to sleep with the enemy, and sent it off for a response. I did not inform any news crews, or organize an 'event.' (not that there is anything wrong with that, just proving that I'm not trying to steal anyone's spotlight) Just me seeing what happens.

    That is not the approved MO, so look what happened... Mobbed by the usual suspects, no consequences. Told that it's my own fault! Again, isn't the foundation of this forum personal responsibility? How is it that I am responsible for what others are doing? It's only apples and oranges because I'm not an apple! The analogy is dead-on. If I misbehave, censored. If the pawns do, nothing happens. The only difference is that I'm not a wealthy elitist and make no bones about it.
    To quote the butch in Gangs of New York .....what in god's name are you talking about?

    I simply made a joke and explained why while at the same time trying to help you. I'm not a pawn of the admin (thus my previous post was deleted). I'm a 23 year old soldier who makes less than 20,000 a year at the moment. So I'm not exactly wealthy either.

    By the way that whole "sleeping with the enemy" comment really pissed me off. LE...misguided and even asinine as they may be at times....are not "enemies". They are our neighbors and friends most of whom BELIEVE in justice and the constitution. We simply need to educate the good officers and get the bad officers disciplined properly. They are NOT enemies.

    Referring to them as such......only proves and concludes the fact that you sir.....are a complete certifiable lunatic.

    That may be a personal attack, but this guy just referred to LE...some of whom are supporters of this org...as enemies. I'm sorry, but that is the same rhetoric of the revolutionary extremists and secessionist whom the admin have already stated is not welcome here.
    Last edited by trooper46; 08-18-2010 at 01:11 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    No, it was set up to show that the primary content will be that of people harassing me and trolling me and accusing me of their own actions... I'll just keep giving them rope to prove it with, while trying to keep a little continuity to the Original Post.
    Given the title of the thread, and your opening comments,
    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'm sure this won't win friends or influence people, especially among the wealthy, elite, 'only ones' of the southeast; but have I ever been know to concern myself with such trifling sorts?
    it appears that the only topical posts are those about your troll for attacks, and your quoted content in the OP was just fluff. Had you really wanted to discuss the topic in your quoted text, a relevant thread title, and removal of the "elite southeast" lead-in would have left you on high ground. As it stands, you aren't there.

    By the way, as you specifically mentioned "giving them rope to prove it with" shows that this thread IS just a troll, and it SHOULD be locked and deleted.
    Last edited by wrightme; 08-18-2010 at 01:33 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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