• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Another soon-to-be-deleted thread.

Status
Not open for further replies.

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
I'm sure this won't win friends or influence people, especially among the wealthy, elite, 'only ones' of the southeast; but have I ever been know to concern myself with such trifling sorts?

My Email to CLEOs in Alachua County said:
I am writing to determine your disposition in obedience to, or defiance of, the following sections of State Statutes.

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--

(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:

(a) A self-defense chemical spray.

(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...TM&Title=->2009->Ch0790->Section 053#0790.053)

Italicized emphasis added by me.

And:

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

(1) DECLARATION OF POLICY.--The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to promote firearms safety and to curb and prevent the use of firearms and other weapons in crime and by incompetent persons without prohibiting the lawful use in defense of life, home, and property, and the use by United States or state military organizations, and as otherwise now authorized by law, including the right to use and own firearms for target practice and marksmanship on target practice ranges or other lawful places, and lawful hunting and other lawful purposes.

[unrelated paragraphs omitted for brevity]

(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

[unrelated paragraphs omitted for brevity]

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

(http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes....HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0790->Section 25#0790.25)

And:

790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.--

(1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.

(http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes....HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0790->Section 33#0790.33)

Shall I expect to be harassed, arrested, intimidated, detained, questioned, interrogated, or otherwise oppressed or attacked by yourself, or any of the officers under your command, in defiance of these statutes? Do you suspect that, in spite of your presumed willingness to enforce the law as written, other officers under your command may need more adequate training in order to avoid costly litigation under U.S.C. Title 42, 1983? I do not believe that Law Enforcement is granted authority to enforce Opinion, Political Interests, or Ignorance.

I would like to bring to your attention that the practice of carrying a firearm, openly, without a permit of any kind, while fishing, camping, or hunting, or in transit to or from such, has already been determined lawful and is publicly practiced.

It is not my intention to threaten legal action, but to educate and prevent the need for such. I hope we are on the same page. I have read Chapter 790 in it's entirety many times, and studied case law on this subject for over a decade. I'm not getting paid, with taxpayer money, to do that. I would hope that those charged with enforcement of the law, who are being paid with taxpayer money, would be aware of the law. At the very least, ignorance is no longer an excuse.

I await your reply.

There are indentations for easier reading in the original. I expect to be told that I should eat sh!t and die. I sent this to the Sheriff and the GPD by BCC.

I wonder how long until I get a knock on my door this time?
 
Last edited:

Rich7553

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
515
Location
SWFL
Well, although the tone is a bit testy IMHO, the points are valid and deserve a response. The solution to all of this is that the legislature needs to provide teeth to 790.33, or by providing some method of challenging the constitutionality of codes and ordinances which conflict with that statute at no cost to the citizen, or at least to make the award of fees and costs part of the declaratory judgement statute.
 
Last edited:

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
Why do you think the thread would be deleted?

That's my question as well. You asked a gun rights question and didn't attack any other member.

Unless I am missing something, this thread will be here for a long time. :)


John
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
That's my question as well. You asked a gun rights question and didn't attack any other member.

Unless I am missing something, this thread will be here for a long time. :)

John

Because all it takes is for one of the high-and-mighty members to come along and declare it an attack upon them, hang the martyr sign around their own necks, etc... But if it isn't to be so this time, so much the better. Just because the shoe fits does not mean I'm forcing anyone to wear it. If they choose to put it on and show it off... That's not my doing. Lets not digress too far.

I don't intend my 'tone' to be 'testy.' But my absolute loathing for LEOs might bleed through... I'll leave my experiences with dirty cops to another thread. I don't deny my 'attitude' is colored by this. I try to remember that hate is not a valid basis for anything.

I appreciate any input. It's already sent, so re-wording is a dollar short and a day late. But it might serve to help others who would write a similar letter. FL may well need a form letter of similar construction to send to all CLEOs. The 'only ones' attitude is very well entrenched here. I don't have any hope for FL turning Yellow, and even Green is slim to none. But I'd love to eat my words.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
The more of your posts I read the more I say to myself: "I wonder if this guy has seriously considered getting professional psychiatric help?"

Aw, that's cute. How dare I not flatter you with imitation. If you've nothing useful to add... Yeah. How much rope do I need to give you 3?

It's nice to see you demonstrate yourselves to be precisely what you label me. Paging Dr. Phil....
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
I think somebody needs their happy pills.....and a little nappy poo. Remember, the pink ones keep you from screaming.

I'll have to defer to your expertise...

Really? It's like being on a playground in kindergarten around here. Failure to grow up is a terrible badge of honor, I don't care if 'everyone is doing it.' You people just can't let a thread be useful if it isn't 'your own kind.' Pathetic.

Only reminds me why I have no respect for society or those who so proudly comprise it.

Another thread dragged down and disposed of by those who will allow no voice but their own. What a waste of bandwidth.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Even better. Since I'm diagnosed 'crazy,' I'm going to carry a banana in my holster.

The line between genius and insanity is drawn exclusively by those who understand neither.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
I'm sure this won't win friends or influence people, especially among the wealthy, elite, 'only ones' of the southeast; but have I ever been know to concern myself with such trifling sorts?



There are indentations for easier reading in the original. I expect to be told that I should eat sh!t and die. I sent this to the Sheriff and the GPD by BCC.

I wonder how long until I get a knock on my door this time?

Why should it be deleted? You make excellent points, don't act like a bootlicker for cops and speak up for what you--and I, btw, believe to be of value. Keep it up. And let us know what response you get from the pencil pushers.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Even better. Since I'm diagnosed 'crazy,' I'm going to carry a banana in my holster.

The line between genius and insanity is drawn exclusively by those who understand neither.

Well, at least you won't be hungry...stick a 1911 in your belt if your holster is occupied.
 

OC4me

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
750
Location
Northwest Kent County, Michigan
I've had the privilege of meeting ixtow and his son and shooting some of the NFA goodies he brought to the range a few years back ... I can assure you he is an upstanding Citizen.

I'm not sure how he got screwed by Florida authorities, but there are bad apples in power everywhere, Florida is no exception.

Florida law, as it relates to the the carry of arms, is blatantly unconstitutional. A holdover from the Jim Crow days perhaps. The ban on open carry will be lifted sooner or later. I give the ban no more than 5 years myself. Yes I'm optimistic. The ban's repeal can't come soon enough.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Executive Assistant to the Alachua County Sheriff said:
Mr. [my name spelled wrong],

I apologize but I don’t understand your question. The deputies are familiar with the laws that they are charged with enforcing. If there is ever any question as to “interpretation” of any laws, we have a staff attorney who renders guidance.

The questions are the sentences that end with a question mark and appear interrogative in nature, or seem to seek a response to a query.

I realize I had a bit of 'fluff' in there, so I responded in a more specific fashion.

My Response said:
I'll try to re-iterate.

Are you and your Deputies aware of, and willing to comply with, the fact that Openly Carrying a Firearm while Fishing, Hunting, or Camping, or while in transit to or from these activities, is apparently legal?

What is your and your Attorney's 'interpretation' of this rather plainly written law?

What action, or inaction, will you or your deputies take in regard to a citizen doing so?

Thank you.

No response from GPD.
 
Last edited:

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Because all it takes is for one of the high-and-mighty members to come along and declare it an attack upon them, hang the martyr sign around their own necks, etc... But if it isn't to be so this time, so much the better. Just because the shoe fits does not mean I'm forcing anyone to wear it. If they choose to put it on and show it off... That's not my doing. Lets not digress too far.

Well, no it doesn't. That only works if it IS an attack, like the one against you that you responded to. Report attacks instead of attacking back.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
I'll have to defer to your expertise...

Really? It's like being on a playground in kindergarten around here. Failure to grow up is a terrible badge of honor, I don't care if 'everyone is doing it.' You people just can't let a thread be useful if it isn't 'your own kind.' Pathetic.

Only reminds me why I have no respect for society or those who so proudly comprise it.

Another thread dragged down and disposed of by those who will allow no voice but their own. What a waste of bandwidth.
As to that, your responses are part of the problem.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
As to that, your responses are part of the problem.

Since the moderator has clearly seen both, one must be at least a little curious why mine often disappear completely, yet those who choose to imitate the staff are given free reign.

My responses exist lest there be no response at all. You're partly right. There shouldn't be anything for me to respond to. My responses are not the problem. They highlight the problem. And that, for those who prefer the imbalance, is a problem.

By your logic, if someone were to attack me, I should dial 911 and hope for the best. Is it really that hard to follow what I'm doing there? I reflect my assailant. I always do. "Willfully Inarticulate." "Willfully Obtuse." You'll figure me out someday... I put excessive effort into making parity with my debate partner, such that the only difference is the point being argued. If that debate partner is an asshat... I'll leave no further breadcrumbs. Smart people 'get it.' Socially, we're all about taking excuses to attack, that's where money comes from. If you're smart and vicious, you pretend not to 'get it' as an excuse to attack and are probably very 'successful.' There are a few people here who 'get me' and aren't the senselessly predatory sort. It's a rare breed. Why must this always be a subject of conversation? I'm different, I have really good reasons for it, moving along...
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Since the moderator has clearly seen both, one must be at least a little curious why mine often disappear completely, yet those who choose to imitate the staff are given free reign.
If yours are reported and theirs are not, yours are likely to get deleted more than theirs.

ixtow said:
My responses exist lest there be no response at all. You're partly right. There shouldn't be anything for me to respond to. My responses are not the problem. They highlight the problem. And that, for those who prefer the imbalance, is a problem.
When you respond in kind, your responses ARE part of the problem. Report and ignore is the path to the best resolution.

ixtow said:
By your logic, if someone were to attack me, I should dial 911 and hope for the best. Is it really that hard to follow what I'm doing there? I reflect my assailant. I always do.
No, that is not the same. It is apples/oranges.
ixtow said:
"Willfully Inarticulate." "Willfully Obtuse." You'll figure me out someday...
Those are very likely to be construed as personal attacks.
ixtow said:
I put excessive effort into making parity with my debate partner, such that the only difference is the point being argued. If that debate partner is an asshat... I'll leave no further breadcrumbs.
Then you ARE part of the problem.
ixtow said:
Smart people 'get it.'
I am smart. I "get it." I do not agree with your method.
ixtow said:
Socially, we're all about taking excuses to attack, that's where money comes from. If you're smart and vicious, you pretend not to 'get it' as an excuse to attack and are probably very 'successful.' There are a few people here who 'get me' and aren't the senselessly predatory sort. It's a rare breed. Why must this always be a subject of conversation? I'm different, I have really good reasons for it, moving along...
No, we are not talking (or taking?) excuses to attack. In discussions like on this forum, there are no excuses for attacks, they are not desired. Once you respond to an attack with an attack, your response fits that metric, and is not desired. Smart people "get it," to mirror your comment with parity. :rolleyes:
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Why do you think the thread would be deleted?

That's my question as well. You asked a gun rights question and didn't attack any other member.

Unless I am missing something, this thread will be here for a long time. :)


John

It appears that the answer to that is this:
"Others will attack ixtow, and ixtow will respond with attacks, and the thread will get deleted."

That appears to be the rational conclusion to the current discussion in this thread.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Since the moderator has clearly seen both, one must be at least a little curious why mine often disappear completely, yet those who choose to imitate the staff are given free reign.
I'm different, I have really good reasons for it, moving along...

Have you reviewed the posts in this thread recently?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top