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Detroit Free Press Online Chat Debate - 8-18-2010

H

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
If this will be online it would be hard for me(type slow),but if it is in person,I will be available if you need me.
 
Tao

Tao

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
116
Location
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
I'm a veteran of the online gun debate, type well, and know how to use those crazy things called commas and periods. Paragraphs too, if things get that crazy.

I'd love to be part of this.
 
fozzy71

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
fozzy71 said:
Thank you for voting!
Yes 42% (1,154 votes)
No 58% (1,586 votes)
Total Votes: 2,740
Click to expand...

FFS, this is a farce btw.

Glock9mmOldStyle said:
They are cheating on the poll! WTF? Free Press can't even set up a fair poll!

They are SPIKING this poll. I watched their numbers [Anti-2A] jump unrealistically over a short span & figured out what they are doing: I suggest fighting fire with fire.

Fire Fox web browser
1. vote
2. hit Ctrl,Shift, Del. (all at once) [clears cookies]
3. hit F5 [refreshes/reloads page] so you can click "yes" vote again.
Repeat - this can be done very quickly! I suggest when in a dirty fight - fight dirty!

(I watched their #'s jump by 500 votes in less than 20 min. this morning?)
Click to expand...
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Ok... I read the online chat and have some comments... none of them personal in nature...

Mr. Rasor came well prepared to overload and dominate the entire proceedings with fast and furious statements and questions based upon an agenda driven loose interpretation of the law. He also played upon the scare tactics of portraying guns as things to be feared.

He was successful.

David from MOC tried his best to be reasonable and to answer each and every question logically, reasonably, and truthfully... as did Brian. It was an heroic effort by all, including those who added comments, trying to be factual and logical.
but they all failed.

Why? Because this entire thing was not an honest and open debate from the start. The politician did what politicians do best... obfuscate, throw so many inconsistencies as possible into the discussion in the shortest period of time in order to not allow his opponent a chance to respond, and use inflammatory rhetoric to demonize his opponent.

Folks... we must realize that measured, reasonable, logical, factual, debate is impossible with people who are well versed in how to manipulate a conversation to their own ends.

We must bring ourselves up to speed on how to focus our efforts/discussion/ability to control the debate by sticking to one issue and one issue only. That of why Royal Oak, or any other municipality, thinks it is above the law and can violate State law at will.

In fact Mr. Rasor said something about how he, as an elected official, could ignore what the attorney says is the law. Which implies that he believes an elected official has the power to ignore that law.

I hope everyone is learning from the Royal Oak experience that to win this fight for rights we must not only OC... we must also be able to stop allowing ourselves to be put on the defensive but must short circuit the domination of conversations by putting those who would use psuedo logic to fan the emotions of the public to further their anti gun agenda on the defensive.

The best answer to an absurd question is to ask a factual question... and continue to press for a factual answer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Bikenut said:
Ok... I read the online chat and have some comments... none of them personal in nature...

Mr. Rasor came well prepared to overload and dominate the entire proceedings with fast and furious statements and questions based upon an agenda driven loose interpretation of the law. He also played upon the scare tactics of portraying guns as things to be feared.

He was successful.

David from MOC tried his best to be reasonable and to answer each and every question logically, reasonably, and truthfully... as did Brian. It was an heroic effort by all, including those who added comments, trying to be factual and logical.

but they all failed.

Why? Because this entire thing was not an honest and open debate from the start. The politician did what politicians do best... obfuscate, throw so many inconsistencies as possible into the discussion in the shortest period of time in order to not allow his opponent a chance to respond, and use inflammatory rhetoric to demonize his opponent.

Folks... we must realize that measured, reasonable, logical, factual, debate is impossible with people who are well versed in how to manipulate a conversation to their own ends.

We must bring ourselves up to speed on how to focus our efforts/discussion/ability to control the debate by sticking to one issue and one issue only. That of why Royal Oak, or any other municipality, thinks it is above the law and can violate State law at will.

In fact Mr. Rasor said something about how he, as an elected official, could ignore what the attorney says is the law. Which implies that he believes an elected official has the power to ignore that law.

I hope everyone is learning from the Royal Oak experience that to win this fight for rights we must not only OC... we must also be able to stop allowing ourselves to be put on the defensive but must short circuit the domination of conversations by putting those who would use psuedo logic to fan the emotions of the public to further their anti gun agenda on the defensive.

The best answer to an absurd question is to ask a factual question... and continue to press for a factual answer.
Click to expand...

I was called by Bill Laithner from the Detroit Free Press late in the chat asking me to participate and explain a bit about the two laws (liquor and entertainment Facility) for the viewers. I also had a few comments I sent that were not posted. I also didn't realize they had a post size limit so my first post was cut off. When I tried to post the rest it was not sent through.

I know they did have editing control over posts, but I don't know what was edited from view.
 
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