Target Sports? WTF?

A guy from the store said in an email response, that there was more to the story than we know, it was their show.

Perhaps this is true, you know how editing can be. I agree, that you shouldnt act this way, especially armed, but maybe we are being hasty?

That was Ray the owner of the shop, regardless of whatever else "could have happened"

he just threw a bunch of money out the door
he just made himself look like an ass.
he grabbed les' gun out of his hand which, lets be honest I don't care where I am if someone grabs my gun, my backup gun is coming out and being pointed at them.
They may have edited it but he is STILL the antagonist in the situation and it will negatively affect his buisness



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSqwIIQ5eYY



I guarantee you that if you came into our gun shop and spent that much money and asked for a discount on the holsters you would GET it and you would not be yelled at and have your gun grabbed from you.

The majority of you that posted on this thread should make a copy and save it in case you ever want to apply to work for the brady bunch, you show all the qualities required. First, your assuming you know what happened and calling for people that have not had a bad experience there to write a bad review. I am suprised that some obvious things were not pointed out. First, what have we heard from a lot of gun shops? That they don't want people carrying in there because they pull out loaded guns... Well did any of you notice the first thing the pawn broker did was pull his gun out of its holster to check and see if a new one would fit it? Second, you all fail to mention that at the end when the gun shop owner disarmed and unloaded the pawn guys gun he took it from his HAND. Why the hell was it in his hand? He had every right to kick him out and I am glad he did, that guy had no business having a gun with the way he was handling a loaded gun.

He kept the store open late, gave him a deal on the guns and was reasonable with him pulling out a loaded gun, I think he just had enough. He gave him a lot of leeway. You are taking the side of a edited clip and running with it. Lets see, Jump to conclusions without all the facts. Check. Make a call for action without all the facts. Check. Yep, good brady candidate qualitys IMO, perhaps you should all review the situation again and be objective instead of reactionary. We are above this people. The customer was a irresponsible moron and should take a gun safety course before he touches a loaded gun again.

And a clip on hardcore pawn is not worth 10-20 million dollars..... Check and see what the most coveted super bowl ads go for. Safety before money.

And I know my response is mean and I am sorry for that but we have to hold people accountable for unsafe practices, not stick up for them. That guy is a ND waiting to happen. And again, I am sorry , I am tired and seeing this really set me off but I am not going to edit it because I think you need to hear it and think about it a bit.

Beerme said:

That was Ray the owner of the shop, regardless of whatever else "could have happened"

he just threw a bunch of money out the door
he just made himself look like an ass.
he grabbed les' gun out of his hand which, lets be honest I don't care where I am if someone grabs my gun, my backup gun is coming out and being pointed at them.
They may have edited it but he is STILL the antagonist in the situation and it will negatively affect his buisness



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSqwIIQ5eYY



I guarantee you that if you came into our gun shop and spent that much money and asked for a discount on the holsters you would GET it and you would not be yelled at and have your gun grabbed from you.

Click to expand...

You have no problem with the fact that a loaded gun was in his hand to begin with to be grabbed? Everyone likes to skip that part. Do you allow people to walk around your store with loaded guns in their hands?

Long before the Pawn guy tried to test out the holster the store owner was bitching and rude throwing the packaged holster down on the counter yelling about the price ect. No reason to ever be such an ass. I held a FFL and shop for 21 1/2 years and never would I treat someone that way, and I had far worse weirdos come in. I had one discharge a firearm (S&W 3913) through a wall (Police officer) and I didn't get foul mouthed and abusive, I kept my cool and calm. Sorry your excusing his nasty foul mouth and attitude long before the Pawn Dealer pulling a gun to test a holster doesn't hold any water. The owner as you call him is a jerk! He was wired with a Mic or didn't you see that removed when he went into orbit? So he knew damn well what was to be expected, if you think those shows are all happen stance you are fooling yourself they are in fact scripted to a degree, and there are no surprises, go ask the shows insurance carrier. Nope you didn't sell me on anything the store owner should have not agreed to that contract if he was going to be a temperamental baby through the whole process. Your un-holstering point is well taken but the store owner lost it long before that happened. I would have walked out ten minutes prior to that incident based on how the owner of the store talked down to the Pawn dealer, no one talks to me that way ever. I will be damned if I would pay someone who talks to me like I am trash. The dealer of the gun shop was already out of line long before the stupid un-holster move and if you think I didn't have many of those ignorant acts played in my place your kidding yourself, that un-holstering thing is a daily problem in gun stores, it is part of doing business and yes a stupid move, but a frequent problem and yes even Police Officers do it and frankly the ones who did that stupid move were mostly so called professionals in Law Enforcement. Stuff happens and people make stupid mistakes, I watch a customer and before he had that weapon out of the holster I would have stopped him. I watch people who have weapons and I also watch those who buy holsters as that is the most probable times for a stupid weapons draw. Ask any dealer who does a lot of sales.
Pawn dealer - 1
Gun dealer -1

choover said:

The majority of you that posted on this thread should make a copy and save it in case you ever want to apply to work for the brady bunch, you show all the qualities required. First, your assuming you know what happened and calling for people that have not had a bad experience there to write a bad review. I am suprised that some obvious things were not pointed out. First, what have we heard from a lot of gun shops? That they don't want people carrying in there because they pull out loaded guns... Well did any of you notice the first thing the pawn broker did was pull his gun out of its holster to check and see if a new one would fit it? Second, you all fail to mention that at the end when the gun shop owner disarmed and unloaded the pawn guys gun he took it from his HAND. Why the hell was it in his hand? He had every right to kick him out and I am glad he did, that guy had no business having a gun with the way he was handling a loaded gun.

He kept the store open late, gave him a deal on the guns and was reasonable with him pulling out a loaded gun, I think he just had enough. He gave him a lot of leeway. You are taking the side of a edited clip and running with it. Lets see, Jump to conclusions without all the facts. Check. Make a call for action without all the facts. Check. Yep, good brady candidate qualitys IMO, perhaps you should all review the situation again and be objective instead of reactionary. We are above this people. The customer was a irresponsible moron and should take a gun safety course before he touches a loaded gun again.

And a clip on hardcore pawn is not worth 10-20 million dollars..... Check and see what the most coveted super bowl ads go for. Safety before money.

And I know my response is mean and I am sorry for that but we have to hold people accountable for unsafe practices, not stick up for them. That guy is a ND waiting to happen. And again, I am sorry , I am tired and seeing this really set me off but I am not going to edit it because I think you need to hear it and think about it a bit.

Click to expand...

Actually in a movie or show taping there is a lot of equipment you can't see that's why they wanted am empty store so they could not disrupt business I am betting. I have watched a few film and show shoots. It was also a nice clean pretty location to shoot a show, meaning easy to set up the boom mikes, lighting, and multiple cameras. You notice there was no shadows from lighting? That's because they had tons of lighting, diffuser boxes, umbrella, and other reflectors to light the place. In some reality shows you will see harsh lighting and many shadows. You didn't here because they set the place up with a lot of lighting to avoid the harshness of direct lighting. The owder knew what he was getting into and he could have handled it far better, and like I said in several replies he was already loosing it over the holster costs, and I would have made a smart assed but funny comment like I said earlier. Like I could give it to you free but then I wouldn't be in business next week to honor the warranty if I gave it all away. One can handle things differently, instead of throwing a tantrum.

eastmeyers said:

It is the new location, which is much farther from American Jewelry and Loan than the Royal Oak Location of Target. Their are also other fire arms stores/ranges that are even closer than Target. I smell a set up is all I am saying. As for Target being rude, some of their employees are. This is true everywhere unfortunately, customer services is hard to find now a days, especially here in the Detroit area.

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choover said:

You have no problem with the fact that a loaded gun was in his hand to begin with to be grabbed? Everyone likes to skip that part. Do you allow people to walk around your store with loaded guns in their hands?

Click to expand...

when he went to clear the chamber nothing came out...
it was empty
our policy is if you bring a loaded gun in and need to take it out you leave and empty it and bring it in empty or you let one of us take it out of your holster and clear it.
I didn't skip it and ignore it, Ray allowed him to bring it out at the beginning without saying anything there is his first mistake so now he has a mindset he can keep takin it out without a problem.
He had the gun in his hand and ray didnt grab it till he was mad which makes it look like he was trying to intimidate him.

he acted unprofessionally
end of story.

as for it being empty there are clerks helping a few people at the start of the recording.

I have watched it a few times, I can't say for certain nothing came out, why was he pulling it out anyhow? I am not saying the dealer acted in the manner he should have, but my point stands that no one here should make judgments based on that clip. How many of the AB&E articles have been biased or shown just one side? We all know how things can be twisted, making comments on their service or blasting them based on a partial clip is childish and Bradyish.

I disagree.

So you think it's perfectly okay to use such language on customers?

Throwing the holster is fine with you while using foul an abusive language on a customer is fine with you?

No matter what I keep my professionalism. There was ZERO professionalism on the part of the store owner.

At any time the store owner could have calmly said what was wrong and he didn't he set the rules of engagement by screaming and verbally abusing and not to mention the F bomb.

If that's your idea of professionalism then we live on a different planet.

choover said:

I have watched it a few times, I can't say for certain nothing came out, why was he pulling it out anyhow? I am not saying the dealer acted in the manner he should have, but my point stands that no one here should make judgments based on that clip. How many of the AB&E articles have been biased or shown just one side? We all know how things can be twisted, making comments on their service or blasting them based on a partial clip is childish and Bradyish.

Click to expand...

Why was he pulling it out? Hmm it was brand new, he was trying the whole rig out by putting on the holster and placing the gun in it to see how it all fits. The gun was empty I watched that clip so many times my eyes hurt, and on a 1080i 40 inch screen and I still see nothing coming out of the weapon. So if people have an issue with him removing the weapon why do we not question why the dealer allowed him to put a holster on and place the brand new gun in said holster? It is now quite obvious the dealer allowed this to happen. Over and over you watch this and the dealers attitude changed soon as the discount on the holster was brought up, he went from calm to idiot in 2 seconds flat. I got news for all you defenders try and haggle with some stores and see how they get pissed off. In this country we think price = price and that's it. If this is how you all do business then you have been paying way too much for everything you buy. I always get a lower price by haggling. Sometimes I will ask for a deal if I add more products that I didn't place on the counter, and guess what I usually get a deal.

Example I will go up and offer to buy the gun, holster and one box of ammo then ask for a better price when I fail to get what I want I will offer to buy more magazines, ammo and other items to get a better deal and more often than not I get a better deal. That is how it is done in every country on this planet except certain business here in the USA. Now of course Walmart or a chain store that ain't happening. But unlike most people I know the mark up on most anything I buy. I am an educated consumer, I find out the markup before I go out and buy so I can get a better deal.

Oh and for those who question why the Pawn dealer went to orchard Lake instead of any other place, might be he has a home there in Orchard Lake, unless you are dumb enough to believe he lives in his Pawn shop? or worse yet that crap hole neighborhood. With the money he makes I am betting he has a home out near Orchard Lake, I damn well would if I had his money. The Pawn dealer is no fool he is a shrewd and profitable business man.

choover said:

I have watched it a few times, I can't say for certain nothing came out, why was he pulling it out anyhow? I am not saying the dealer acted in the manner he should have, but my point stands that no one here should make judgments based on that clip. How many of the AB&E articles have been biased or shown just one side? We all know how things can be twisted, making comments on their service or blasting them based on a partial clip is childish and Bradyish.

Click to expand...

It was NOT loaded watch the clip over and over nothing came out it was the gun he was purchasing, or didn't you pay attention to what was going on and said?

choover said:

You have no problem with the fact that a loaded gun was in his hand to begin with to be grabbed? Everyone likes to skip that part. Do you allow people to walk around your store with loaded guns in their hands?

Click to expand...

For those who don't know.

Several years ago I worked for a short stint with a productions and promotions company. It was extra cash.
All these so called reality shows are scripted, nothing is chance. They manipulate people to come in and sell or pawn goods. So 90% of the customers are already aware they are walking into a theatrical production, and that's why you see so many animated personalities. They are all looking for stardom folks. All reality shows have casting calls and the only reality is those people coming in that store want a shot at fame and or stardom, so you will get weirdos......Mostly!

Here is a link to look at.

http://michiganacting.com/acting/auditions-casting-calls/hardcore-pawn-casting-call-detroit

D.A is a range don't Like to go as well my uncle was told this is not a toy store by one of the employee's because he was looking to buy is first gun and ask to see several guns after the third gun that's when the employee forgot wat he was there for.... If they don't like there job I don't know y work there.

Bailenforcer said:

Why was he pulling it out? Hmm it was brand new, he was trying the whole rig out by putting on the holster and placing the gun in it to see how it all fits. The gun was empty I watched that clip so many times my eyes hurt, and on a 1080i 40 inch screen and I still see nothing coming out of the weapon. So if people have an issue with him removing the weapon why do we not question why the dealer allowed him to put a holster on and place the brand new gun in said holster? It is now quite obvious the dealer allowed this to happen. Over and over you watch this and the dealers attitude changed soon as the discount on the holster was brought up, he went from calm to idiot in 2 seconds flat. I got news for all you defenders try and haggle with some stores and see how they get pissed off. In this country we think price = price and that's it. If this is how you all do business then you have been paying way too much for everything you buy. I always get a lower price by haggling. Sometimes I will ask for a deal if I add more products that I didn't place on the counter, and guess what I usually get a deal.

Example I will go up and offer to buy the gun, holster and one box of ammo then ask for a better price when I fail to get what I want I will offer to buy more magazines, ammo and other items to get a better deal and more often than not I get a better deal. That is how it is done in every country on this planet except certain business here in the USA. Now of course Walmart or a chain store that ain't happening. But unlike most people I know the mark up on most anything I buy. I am an educated consumer, I find out the markup before I go out and buy so I can get a better deal.

Oh and for those who question why the Pawn dealer went to orchard Lake instead of any other place, might be he has a home there in Orchard Lake, unless you are dumb enough to believe he lives in his Pawn shop? or worse yet that crap hole neighborhood. With the money he makes I am betting he has a home out near Orchard Lake, I damn well would if I had his money. The Pawn dealer is no fool he is a shrewd and profitable business man.

Click to expand...

I never said the store owner acted as he should. the gun was not brand new, the pawn shop guy brought his own with him. He had it at the start and as the gun store owner took and unloaded it the pawn shop guy said " thats mine"

Bailenforcer said:

Why was he pulling it out? Hmm it was brand new, he was trying the whole rig out by putting on the holster and placing the gun in it to see how it all fits. The gun was empty I watched that clip so many times my eyes hurt, and on a 1080i 40 inch screen and I still see nothing coming out of the weapon. So if people have an issue with him removing the weapon why do we not question why the dealer allowed him to put a holster on and place the brand new gun in said holster? It is now quite obvious the dealer allowed this to happen. Over and over you watch this and the dealers attitude changed soon as the discount on the holster was brought up, he went from calm to idiot in 2 seconds flat. I got news for all you defenders try and haggle with some stores and see how they get pissed off. In this country we think price = price and that's it. If this is how you all do business then you have been paying way too much for everything you buy. I always get a lower price by haggling. Sometimes I will ask for a deal if I add more products that I didn't place on the counter, and guess what I usually get a deal.

Example I will go up and offer to buy the gun, holster and one box of ammo then ask for a better price when I fail to get what I want I will offer to buy more magazines, ammo and other items to get a better deal and more often than not I get a better deal. That is how it is done in every country on this planet except certain business here in the USA. Now of course Walmart or a chain store that ain't happening. But unlike most people I know the mark up on most anything I buy. I am an educated consumer, I find out the markup before I go out and buy so I can get a better deal.

Oh and for those who question why the Pawn dealer went to orchard Lake instead of any other place, might be he has a home there in Orchard Lake, unless you are dumb enough to believe he lives in his Pawn shop? or worse yet that crap hole neighborhood. With the money he makes I am betting he has a home out near Orchard Lake, I damn well would if I had his money. The Pawn dealer is no fool he is a shrewd and profitable business man.

Click to expand...

So your under the impression we have all of the details and this is not one sided? Rightttttttttttttt... I cant imagine it being biased. *sarcasm Off*

Hey, I'm with you guys, this is unacceptable! I am this close /-------/ to rioting.

Actually, I'd suggest that whether the Pawn broker's gun was loaded or not is irrelevant.

1) If you KNOW it's NOT loaded, why grab for it? What justification would you have?
2) If you KNOW it IS loaded ... trying to grab a loaded firearm away from someone exponentially increases the chances of an AD. Ray could easily have shot himself (or someone else) if the Pawn broker's finger had been inside the trigger guard, or if Ray accidentally jammed his finger inside the trigger guard during the "grab".
3)If you're not sure it's loaded, you're supposed to treat it as if it was ... so see #2 above.

In all 3 cases, I see no justification for losing your temper, slamming holsters around like a child, swearing up a storm, then grabbing someone's gun. That kind of behavior simply escalates what could become a very dangerous confrontation.

choover said:

I have watched it a few times, I can't say for certain nothing came out, why was he pulling it out anyhow? I am not saying the dealer acted in the manner he should have, but my point stands that no one here should make judgments based on that clip. How many of the AB&E articles have been biased or shown just one side? We all know how things can be twisted, making comments on their service or blasting them based on a partial clip is childish and Bradyish.

Click to expand...

I will tell you that quality taxidermists with pride in their work will not be so amenable to haggling over prices to do mounts. Don't say " but the other guy only charges 300.00, why are you 500.00?".

Price shoppers are one of my peeves. I might give you something off if you are buying some tanned furs or a fur hat or something, but the price on my price list for the buck shoulder mount ain't going down because " so and so charges less". "So and so" probably puts in less effort and uses cheap materials, and 6 months later the skin starts seperating around the eyes, or the mount has a bad smell to it.

Just something to let you know about. Services are different from goods. Same goes for-haggling with a lawyer, haggling with a plumber, haggling with the septic pump guy... For some reason some people think taxidermy is goods and can haggle on mount prices. This after they pull up in a new F350 diesel, with a deer they shot with a brand new gun that was $$$.

You make no point.

people haggle like it or not, and would you pay a sticker price for that F-350? Only a fool would.

Goods are often marked up, so your point is invalid. No one gives "goods" away. Everything is marked up. Your taxidermy point makes no sense either. Your whole post proved nothing except you think you are better than anyone else. Um okay, now what? My pet peeve is prima-donna's who think they are so much better than others. Now what?

You based your whole thesis on the fact you get peeved when people haggle so that makes it bad in your mind. Fine give us your business name so some of us can avoid your elitist attitude. Unlike you I don't get my under wear up in a bunch when people are price shopping, I merely tell them what I can or can't do to lower a price, it's really a simple concept. No means no, and it doesn't mean one can throw tantrum throw the holster on the counter hurling the F-BOMB at people. He was and still is a childish fool who lost many customers, because he acted like a spoiled child. PERIOD! and everyone trying to read their tea leaves to find another excuse is making the whole situation worse. No one has the right to berate someone in that manner period.

I find it instructive that a few can't grasp a simple concept that his behavior was stupid at best. I wonder if that's how they deal with disagreements? If so they might consider NOT carrying weapon. That lack of self control in the video was in my mind illustrative of someone who shouldn't carry a weapon. He has NO self control.

Frankly I hope he learns from this, to abuse people is inexcusable, verbally or otherwise.

XD40coyote said:

I will tell you that quality taxidermists with pride in their work will not be so amenable to haggling over prices to do mounts. Don't say " but the other guy only charges 300.00, why are you 500.00?".

Price shoppers are one of my peeves. I might give you something off if you are buying some tanned furs or a fur hat or something, but the price on my price list for the buck shoulder mount ain't going down because " so and so charges less". "So and so" probably puts in less effort and uses cheap materials, and 6 months later the skin starts seperating around the eyes, or the mount has a bad smell to it.

Just something to let you know about. Services are different from goods. Same goes for-haggling with a lawyer, haggling with a plumber, haggling with the septic pump guy... For some reason some people think taxidermy is goods and can haggle on mount prices. This after they pull up in a new F350 diesel, with a deer they shot with a brand new gun that was $$$.

Click to expand...

The gun shouldn't have come out.
The gun shouldn't have been grabbed.
They both need an attitude adjustment.
The pawn guy needs some weapons retention training.
The store owner needs some PR training.
They both need a gun safety course.
We don't have the whole story.

stainless1911 said:

The gun shouldn't have come out.
The gun shouldn't have been grabbed.
They both need an attitude adjustment.
The pawn guy needs some weapons retention training.
The store owner needs some PR training.
They both need a gun safety course.
We don't have the whole story.

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Your last line is the WHOLE point. People are jumping on the store owner here and all we have is the PAWN brokers side of the story. now I know the media never gets it wrong, like the fact there are only 200 of us registered to open carry in Michigan per the newspaper... My entire point is the last line, so many went off on a mini fit and we do not have both sides or all the facts. As open carriers I tend to think we pride ourselves on acting on facts not assumptions.