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Thread: Appearance is everything!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Appearance is everything!

    This post will most likely upset a few, but I think it not only needs to be said, but on a regular basis it needs to be repeated.
    Now I am one who can dress anyway I damn well please, and often I don't care what others think. But when I open carry I know I am a large billboard representing every single person who is involved in Open Carry, and everyone who wants to open carry, or has even considered it.
    So when I open carry I go out of my way to make my appearance look as if I am harmless, and someone to not be feared. I have seen some who open carry and look like they have not showered in weeks. They wear clothes that look like they have never seen a washing machine. I told this was going to upset some, but if so they need to get over themselves. Now I fully realize some people don't have a tailor, or mommy to wash their clothes. But a little effort and one can become one of the great washed as opposed to the other. Also dressing in gang banger style is in my world unacceptable, these few need to grow up and be a man as opposed to trying to impressed the local 13 year old MTV gang banger wanna bee's.
    Now this doesn't mean I think you should wear a suit and tie and if what you read so far lead you to this conclusion, you need some remedial English classes. One can wear jeans and short of just leaving work at the foundry, can wear clean jeans that have been washed within the last week. And for GOD's sake try and wear a shirt that doesn't look like you just pulled it out of a bodily orifice. One can wash and dry clothes wrinkle free if they remove them from the dryer within a few minutes of the dryer stopping and hang them on hangers. This will ensure nice wrinkle free clothes.

    Why am I belaboring this? I have seen some of the open carry crowd in Michigan and a few are in need of a dress code. This is common sense and shouldn't be dismissed. When I open carry I make sure I look good and that ain't easy as ugly as I look. But seriously folks, we need to set a standard since we are in fact representing each other. And for the sake of all human kind please quit wearing your baseball caps backwards, it doesn't make you look tough, it makes you look like some kind of idiot who can't figure out a simple baseball cap!

    I know quite a few have talked to me in PM's here, in team talk, on the telephone, emails, and in person and this issue was brought up by others than myself. So I know it bothers a number of people, but why so many are afraid of bringing it up is beyond me. So here it is, I am raising the bar for those who can't grasp a simple concept that how you look is in FACT how people judge you. I have raised this with less than subtle hints in a few posts of mine, now I am in your face with it. We need to act as if we are serious and dress like men, not dirty children. I know there are only a few who are dressed like I have complained about, but you few stick out like a sore thumb at events. If you are that poor I will start a fund for bath soap shampoo and detergent.

    Okay now you can whine, bitch complain how I am making personal attacks like the few of you do with nearly every post I make.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 08-18-2010 at 11:27 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  2. #2
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    totally reasonable.

  3. #3
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    Well said!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    This post will most likely upset a few, but I think it not only needs to be said, but on a regular basis it needs to be repeated.
    Now I am one who can dress anyway I damn well please, and often I don't care what others think. But when I open carry I know I am a large billboard representing every single person who is involved in Open Carry, and everyone who wants to open carry, or has even considered it.
    So when I open carry I go out of my way to make my appearance look as if I am harmless, and someone to not be feared. I have seen some who open carry and look like they have no showered in weeks. They war clothes that look like they have never seen a washing machine. I told this was going to upset some, but if so they need to get over themselves. Now I fully realize some people don't have a tailor, or mommy to wash their clothes. But a little effort and one can become one of the great washed as opposed to the other. Also dressing in gang banger style is in my world unacceptable, these few need to grow up and be a man as opposed to trying to impressed the local 13 year old MTV gang banger wanna bee's.
    Now this doesn't mean I think you should wear a suit and tie and if what you read so far lead you to this conclusion, you need some remedial English classes. One can wear jeans and short of just leaving work at the foundry, can wear clean jeans that have been washed within the last week. And for GOD's sake try and wear a shirt that doesn't look like you just pulled it out of a bodily orifice. One can wash and dry clothes wrinkle free if they remove them from the dryer within a few minutes of the dryer stopping and hang them on hangers. This will ensure nice wrinkle free clothes.

    Why am I belaboring this? I have seen some of the open carry crowd in Michigan and a few are in need of a dress code. This is common sense and shouldn't be dismissed. When I open carry I make sure I look good and that ain't easy as ugly as I look. But seriously folks, we need to set a standard since we are in fact representing each other. And for the sake of all human kind please quit wearing your baseball caps backwards, it doesn't make you look tough, it makes you look like some kind of idiot who can't figure out a simple baseball cap!

    I know quite a few have talked to me in PM's here, in team talk, on the telephone, emails, and in person and this issue was brought up by others than myself. So I know it bothers a number of people, but why so many are afraid of bringing it up is beyond me. So here it is, I am raising the bar for those who can't grasp a simple concept that how you look is in FACT how people judge you. I have raised this with less than subtle hints in a few posts of mine, now I am in your face with it. We need to act as if we are serious and dress like men, not dirty children. I know there are only a few who are dressed like I have complained about, but you few stick out like a sore thumb at events. If you are that poor I will start a fund for bath soap shampoo and detergent.

    Okay now you can whine, bitch complain how I am making personal attacks like the few of you do with nearly every post I make.

  4. #4
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Oh cool, now you have to be well dressed to be able to defend yourself. Perhaps you could suggest the best religion for all OC'ers also, so they fit your mold of a proper OC'er?
    Last edited by fozzy71; 08-17-2010 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Devil's advocate
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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    Oh cool, now you have to be well dressed to be able to defend yourself. Perhaps you could suggest the best religion for all OC'ers also, so they fit your mold of a proper OC'er?
    This has been discussed to death in the past. I'm even guilty of suggesting such a thing, probably two years ago. In my opinion, the main point is cleanliness. I am certainly not "well dressed" when I carry, but I'm clean. That is habit in general, though. Shower, shave, put on clean jeans and t-shirt. I'm also rather plainly tattooed. That in itself is enough to get some folks stirred up about whether I ought to carry openly. To each their own.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

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    Big Brother is watching ?

    I know people have opinions, and everyones rant sounds like a bitch, But I don't dress like a yuppie, I am a biker, some people don't like bikers, but this is what I look like. I think it is one of my rights. It would be a wonderful world if everyone looked like me. Oh My God, He's Got A Gun.

  7. #7
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    I agree, it would be nice if everyone were clean, well groomed, and dressed nicely, but....... this is America. They have the right to wear a gun and dress/groom like a bum if they so choose. You telling them there is something wrong with it is no different than those lib-tards in RO telling us to leave our guns home.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    I agree, it would be nice if everyone were clean, well groomed, and dressed nicely, but....... this is America. They have the right to wear a gun and dress/groom like a bum if they so choose. You telling them there is something wrong with it is no different than those lib-tards in RO telling us to leave our guns home.
    This is true, Fozzy, which is why it should remain as nothing more than a suggestion.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    If you will notice the OP mostly was talking about clean!

    If you are a biker and that is how you dress fine just be clean about it!

    If you are a yuppie fine just be a clean and neat yuppie!

    IF you are a Gang Banger wanna be...... get help!!

    If you like jeans and white t-shirt no biggy just wear clean ones.

    You know I fully understand the issue here and that saying some one cannot exercise a right unless they dress a certain way or act a certain way can come off as elitist. However we are in a battle of ideology with our enemy the anti. And we know that first impressions are important and how we look has much to do with first impressions.

    I look at how I dress as part of the armor I wear against harassment. And I feel part of the reason I am able to get my point across to so many people is BC they are not afraid of me ... mostly BC of how I look and of course act.

    When you look and act like an average Joe and not like a nut you will be received far better and the gun on your hip is far less of an issue.

    Some mentioned tattoos... well again if you are dressed neatly and look clean most people are not going to be worried by them... on the other hand if you looked like you slept in the storm sewer .... then people are likely to be concerned... and not as apt to be receptive to the OC position.

    As was mentioned we are ALL ambassadors.. we need to remember that.
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 08-17-2010 at 11:40 AM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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  10. #10
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Such a simple concept....

    When a person wants to sell a product/idea at a meeting to board members of a prestigious company he dresses in a manner that will present himself.. and, by extension, his product/idea.. in the best light possible in hopes that board will accept his product/idea so he can make money on it.

    Or the guy can dress like a slob, show up for the meeting looking like he just got done with a 3 week drinking binge, act like a dork, and be kicked out of the meeting. And fail in his goal to sell his product/idea. Then complain how unreasonable and stupid the board members/company is.

    When a person wants to sell the public on the concept that openly carrying a sidearm is nothing to be feared hoping the sidearm/2nd Amendment rights will be accepted........... it is advantageous to dress the part and behave in a manner that will help the sidearm/2nd Amendment rights be accepted so he can realize his goal of making guns in public a normal everyday thing.

    Or the open carrier can dress like a slob, look like he just got done with a 3 week drinking binge, act like a jerk, and get kicked out of businesses/ridiculed by the general public. And fail in his goal to sell the public on normalizing guns in everyday life. Then complain how unreasonable and stupid the public is.

    You decide which of those is most productive.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  11. #11
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    Rights belong to everybody. Open carry does too. Open carry represents everyone, mechanics, carpenters, food workers, as well as the doctors and lawyers. I wouldnt hesitate to OC with painted in clothes, or hands covered in grease from working on a car, or painting something.

    If we really cared about what people thought, we wouldn't OC.

    There are many times that I was crawling around under a car, dirty and greasy, and needed to go to the store for this part or that, and got lunch while I was out. OC the whole time.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-17-2010 at 11:50 AM.

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    fozzy, comparing the trampling of a persons constitutional rights to telling someone to present themselves in a good light are two different things.

    a lot of the media is on the ABE story right now. it would be a good thing if OC'ers make an effort to look squared away while the attention is on the issue.

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Rights belong to everybody. Open carry does too. Open carry represents everyone, mechanics, carpenters, food workers, as well as the doctors and lawyers. I wouldnt hesitate to OC with painted in clothes, or hands covered in grease from working on a car, or painting something.

    When it is obvious that the person is dirty from work ... no big deal... when it they are dirty BC they haven't washed in weeks...

    All I know is there is a difference and I can tell!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    and as far as tattoos go, i do not think it is even an issue anymore. the world has changed.

    unless you have racist or nazi tattoos. that would totally draw the medias eyes.

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    I'm Confused.

    Jeffrey Dahmer, has the same appearance i think OP is talking about. thats why I carry a Gun

  16. #16
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricianLU58 View Post
    fozzy, comparing the trampling of a persons constitutional rights to telling someone to present themselves in a good light are two different things.
    ....
    Of course, hence the 'devil's advocate' in my edit line.

    I just don't feel ANYONE should tell ANYONE how they should dress, groom, or present themselves. I understand the idea behind the OP, and that presenting yourself in a professional manner will reflect well on OC as a whole, but opinions are like ********, everyone has one, and they all smell like ****.
    Last edited by fozzy71; 08-17-2010 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Reveling in my new found Libertarian attitude. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    When it is obvious that the person is dirty from work ... no big deal... when it they are dirty BC they haven't washed in weeks...

    All I know is there is a difference and I can tell!
    Fair enough.

    I would NEVER show up to something like AB&E, GLX, or an A2 march looking like I just got done changing out an engine, or painting a deck.

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    The OP seems like a lot of work for little benefit. IF someone is a slob to start with, do you really think this post is going to caus ethem to reconsider their life and change? I am not offended, but I do find the gist of the whole post pretty paternalistic. I, for one, find my opinions of me and my attire the most important. If I never wanted anyone to think poor of me, I'd eat fewer doughnuts and never OC.

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    OK, Ive got it.

    Playing the Game

    Game Rules
    1.Look Respectable
    2.Smile
    3.No Dark Sunglasses
    4.Head UP, shoulders back
    5.Stay Out of Pfz
    6.Gun Must be acceptable to all
    7.The Cops are always right
    8.Do not carry at family events.

    I must go now, back to the Libtard forum for more rules. Ill Be Back

  20. #20
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Just my .02 worth....

    I think it's not so much about what you wear or the style of dress you choose, it's more about how you present yourself to the general public.

    It's been my personal experience that when you go out armed, it puts the general public on alert, for whatever reason.
    How you act/react to them can either make them more tense or put them at ease.
    Regardless of how you are dressed, if you act like a civil, rational member of society, it will help put the image of gun carriers as everyday, average people in more peoples minds and help, not hurt the cause.

    I'm involved with Boy Scouting and I always tell the scouts that when they put on their uniform, whether class A or B, that by their actions they are representing not only themselves, but Boy Scouting as a whole.
    I believe the same holds true here, regardless of how we are dressed, we represent gun carriers everywhere to the general public.

    Dress the way that makes you comfortable, just remember that the antis are watching and will pounce on and amplify anything they can, let's not give them anything to distort.

    Well, enough of my rambling, carry on and be safe!

    -MH

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gort View Post
    Playing the Game

    Game Rules
    1.Look Respectable
    2.Smile
    3.No Dark Sunglasses
    4.Head UP, shoulders back
    5.Stay Out of Pfz
    6.Gun Must be acceptable to all
    7.The Cops are always right
    8.Do not carry at family events.

    I must go now, back to the Libtard forum for more rules. Ill Be Back
    Ah yes the Libtard rules.... FYI there are at least 235 more..
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I think this post is good advice for those who want to OC without being looked at suspiciously or hassled by LE. I am NOT commenting on how things should be. I am simply commenting on reality.

    If you dress like a piece of trash....people are generally going to treat you like one. Not saying it's the way it should be, just the way it is.

    If you don't care what people think. Good for you, it's your right and I take my hat off to you. But don't be surprised and come whining on the forum when so and so made a MWAG call or someone decided they didn't want you carrying in their business because you were carrying while looking like somebody who just rolled out of the crack house.

    People in this world don't have time to get to know the real you, they make decisions at first glance. Again, not the way it should be, but thats the way world works. If you want to OC with less hassle and give a good image to the OC, follow the the original post. If not, its your right to do so and it's other people's right to make judgments based on your appearance. (which may or may not hurt the movement)

  23. #23
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Libtard
    Please don't use this word. It is offensive.

  24. #24
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    Oh cool, now you have to be well dressed to be able to defend yourself. Perhaps you could suggest the best religion for all OC'ers also, so they fit your mold of a proper OC'er?
    +1

    So, to excersize one right I have to give up a different one? I shower every day and wear clean clothes every day, sometimes it's a ripped t-shirt, sometimes it's a 3 piece suit. Who cares?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please don't use this word. It is offensive.
    Ditto. Some of us........ we are a rare and exotic breed but we do exist,......are liberals that are very pro-2nd amendment along with other individual rights. The liberal school of political thought is based solidly individualism. Any one who is in favor of restricting an individual's right to self-preservation and defense is NOT a true liberal, they are in fact...a fascist.

    I still do not understand how other liberals can be so focussed on preserving the rights of the individual but simply ignore the most basic human right to self-preservation. Self-preservation in today's world = being able to carry a hand gun in your daily life and business. This is why I became an independent. But, I also consider myself a leftist.

    Considering what I have just said, I hope you wouldn't want to insult true liberals who believe in an individual's right bear arms by using a derogatory and insulting term. While I disagree with some of my very conservative friends on other issues, I don't feel the need to use personal insults.
    Last edited by trooper46; 08-17-2010 at 01:45 PM.

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