Does this meet the requirement for justified shooting?

ProShooter said:

Until you see that gun, I agree that you are just shy of an imminent threat.

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Unless you're a cop.

Then it can be a justifiable shoot if you're holding a cell phone,

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003949613_webshooting14m.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19381571/detail.html


or a squirtgun,

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...cer-Killed-Man-Over-a-Water-Gun-92666574.html


or a Vicki Weaver's baby...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

skidmark said:

There are reasons why the connecting door between my room and ProShooter's room remains locked. (Besides those reasons, you perverts!).

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I thought that it stayed locked because I snore too loudly, and I don't want to disturb your beauty sleep?

skidmark said:

What matters in the administration of justice, as well as the rule of law, is whether or not I was reasonable in believing he had a weapon and that at the time I shot him to stop the threat of imminent death or serious bodily harm that the threat was imminent.

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That is what I was getting at. I do not see that there was an imminent threat in the scenario presented.

The OP stated:

I come to the conclusion if someone were ever to slip me a note across the counter that said "give me the money and nobody gets hurt" or something to the effect, and they have nothing in your hands, and are just standing there waiting, there would be a probability I'd just shoot them till incapacitation w/o a word. (Obviously there are no absolutes and it all depends on what I perceive from the assailant.)

Guy hands you a note, threatening some type of bodily harm, if you do not comply with his demand. He has nothing in his hands, and is just standing there waiting. If you "just shoot them till incapacitation", I think you'd be facing criminal charges. I see their threat as possible, probable, and real - but not immediate. That's just my 2 penny opinion, and its worth everything that you paid for it.

interesting points.

If someone said "give me the money or I'll key your car," nobody would pay up.
If someone said "give me the money or I'll give you a wedgie," nobody would pay up.
A robbery is enforced by threat of death or grievous bodily injury.

I would be hard pressed to assume "give me the money and nobody gets hurt" as anything less.

I guess much of this will depend on the 'vibe' the guy gives off.

"shoot till incapacity" was the wrong thing to say. I meant until the threat was no more. whether he runs, puts his hands up, or falls over, or does something to make me think he is not a threat.

ProShooter said:

SNIP
That is what I was getting at. I do not see that there was an imminent threat in the scenario presented.

The OP stated:

I come to the conclusion if someone were ever to slip me a note across the counter that said "give me the money and nobody gets hurt" or something to the effect, and they have nothing in your hands, and are just standing there waiting, there would be a probability I'd just shoot them till incapacitation w/o a word. (Obviously there are no absolutes and it all depends on what I perceive from the assailant.)

Guy hands you a note, threatening some type of bodily harm, if you do not comply with his demand. He has nothing in his hands, and is just standing there waiting. If you "just shoot them till incapacitation", I think you'd be facing criminal charges. I see their threat as possible, probable, and real - but not immediate. That's just my 2 penny opinion, and its worth everything that you paid for it.

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(chuckle) I wonder how many of us were responding to the thread title question and news article, and how many to the OPs comments quoted here.

No wonder we are debating so much. We're not all talking about the same thing. The OP changed the circumstances when he wrote the scenario to which he would shoot, leaving out the weapon, also known as the Ability part of Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy/Intent.

For myself, I was literally responding to the thread-title question, and the quoted news item which discusses a gun.

Note to self: Double check the OP and see if the OPer changed something mid-text, and sort that out first. (we need a "shakes head while smiling" smiley.)

My question was general in nature. All points are well taken. Good discussion.

Citizen said:

(chuckle) I wonder how many of us were responding to the thread title question and news article, and how many to the OPs comments quoted here.

No wonder we are debating so much. We're not all talking about the same thing. The OP changed the circumstances when he wrote the scenario to which he would shoot, leaving out the weapon, also known as the Ability part of Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy/Intent.

For myself, I was literally responding to the thread-title question, and the quoted news item which discusses a gun.

Note to self: Double check the OP and see if the OPer changed something mid-text, and sort that out first. (we need a "shakes head while smiling" smiley.)

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and I was responding to the OP's scenario.....oh this wacky internetz thing!

Then there is option THREE: Go off on your very own tangent (as I did).

I stand guilty of completely ignoring the OP and coming up with an idea straight from of the south end of a north-bound bovine with pointed hood ornaments based upon my own life experiences rather than the OP's hypothetical situation.

I based my post on past experience in similar situations. You REALLY don't want to pull the trigger unless you know for DARN sure your (or someone else's) life is in danger of serious bodily harm or death. My life was threatened and I could have legally shot the individual threatening me. I was able to "solve the problem" without having to taste freshly ground brain matter or clean bits of hair and skull from the interior of my new F-150. I still believe I did the right thing. There is at least one LEO in Harris County, Texas that disagrees. He made it perfectly clear the lives of Harris County citizens would be considerably improved if the contents of that particular brain bucket had been scattered all over the grassy median on Spencer Highway in Pasadena, Texas. The LEO questioned my sanity when I answered his question about WHY I didn't shoot the miserable SOB that desperately needed it. I told him calmly that it involved too much paperwork (and I hate paperwork).

Good for you.

Justified, it still sucks really badly for a long time.

The guy has a note in his hand. He isn't in aposition to hurt you for the moment. Four words would clear it up.

"Where's the gun A$$hole?"

If he goes to show it...shoot him, if no just ask for the next customer.:lol:

peter nap said:

The guy has a note in his hand. He isn't in aposition to hurt you for the moment. Four words would clear it up.

"Where's the gun A$$hole?"

If he goes to show it...shoot him, if no just ask for the next customer.:lol:

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Well, that's one way to handle it!

Are you saying that you disregarded the "He needed killing" clause in the Texas Constitution? I think you did the right thing but it would probably been less paperwork for the LEO is you had killed him. Either way I think that too many people look for an excuse to use their gun rather than a reason. The response to the OP is good example as most of us are telling why we could shoot him legally rather than why is there any need at all to do it.

MSC 45ACP said:

Then there is option THREE: Go off on your very own tangent (as I did).

I stand guilty of completely ignoring the OP and coming up with an idea straight from of the south end of a north-bound bovine with pointed hood ornaments based upon my own life experiences rather than the OP's hypothetical situation.

I based my post on past experience in similar situations. You REALLY don't want to pull the trigger unless you know for DARN sure your (or someone else's) life is in danger of serious bodily harm or death. My life was threatened and I could have legally shot the individual threatening me. I was able to "solve the problem" without having to taste freshly ground brain matter or clean bits of hair and skull from the interior of my new F-150. I still believe I did the right thing. There is at least one LEO in Harris County, Texas that disagrees. He made it perfectly clear the lives of Harris County citizens would be considerably improved if the contents of that particular brain bucket had been scattered all over the grassy median on Spencer Highway in Pasadena, Texas. The LEO questioned my sanity when I answered his question about WHY I didn't shoot the miserable SOB that desperately needed it. I told him calmly that it involved too much paperwork (and I hate paperwork).

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