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Thread: Reno Parks? Legal or not? What do you think

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Reno Parks? Legal or not? What do you think

    Warning, Long Post!



    The reason why I say Reno parks is this:


    First off lets start with Sparks Parks


    Sparks Muni Code:


    Section 12.24.070 Firearms prohibited; Exceptions
    A. Except as provided in subsection C, it is unlawful for any person to carry or wear a firearm in a city park.
    B. A "firearm" means any weapon with a caliber of .177 inches or greater from which a projectile may be propelled by means of explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.
    C. Nothing in this section prohibits the carrying or wearing of a firearm by a peace officer or the carrying of a firearm pursuant to the terms of a valid concealed weapons permit.
    (Ord. 1383 1 (part), 1983.)


    as far as I see it you cant carry in a sparks park unless you are a LEO or have a CCW!


    Now for Washoe County Parks

    Washoe County Ord


    95.220 Firearms, archery devices: Possession or discharge in county parks.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, no person may possess or discharge any weapon from which a projectile may be propelled by means of explosive, spring, gas, air or other force in any county park.
    2. The provisions of this section relating to possession or discharge of firearms do not apply if the firearm or archery device is possessed or discharged:
    (a) At a designated shooting or archery facility owned and operated by the county; and
    (b) Under the supervision and control of the range master at the facility.
    3. Each range master may, upon approval of the director, adopt reasonable rules governing the possession and discharge of firearms and archery devices at the facility of which he is in charge, and all persons using the facility shall adhere strictly to those
    rules.
    [12, Ord. No. 229; A Ord. Nos. 437, 713]



    Now here is a list of the county parks as far as I see there are only 7 parks



    Names of Washoe County Parks and Recreation Facilities
    95.510 Pioneer Park. Galena Creek Park on the slopes of Mount Rose is renamed the Pioneer Park in memory of those early pioneers who settled that region of Washoe County in the early days. [County commissioners' minutes, Book O, p. 319, October 29, 1939]
    95.520 Crystal Peak Park. The county park in Verdi, Nevada, acquired from the department of highways of the State of Nevada in 1961 is named the Crystal Peak Park.
    [County commissioners' minutes, Book V, p. 328, November 6, 1961]
    95.530 Clarence K. Bath Memorial Arena. The horsemen's arena at Hidden Valley is named the Clarence K. Bath Memorial Arena. [68-118]
    95.540 Martin Luther King Memorial Park. The county park in Black Springs is named the Martin Luther King Memorial Park. [70-835] + [70-884]
    95.550 Audrey Harris Park. The Windy Hill Park on Lakeside Drive is renamed the Audrey Harris Park. [76-527] + [76-693]
    95.560 Sierra Sage Golf Course. The Stead Golf Course is renamed the Sierra Sage Golf Course. [74-75]
    95.570 Nevada State Fairgrounds. The name of the Washoe County Fairgrounds is changed to the Nevada State Fairgrounds in order to support the efforts of the board of directors of the Nevada State Fair. [79-893]



    Now Lets get to Reno

    Reno Muni Code


    Sec. 8.23.140. - Carrying dangerous weapons.
    Any person in possession of a dangerous knife or dangerous weapon during his commission of a violation of any section of this chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
    (1)
    Dangerous knife means a knife having a blade that is two inches or more in length from the tip of the knife which is customarily sharpened to the unsharpened extension of the blade which forms the hinge connecting the blade to the handle.
    (3)
    Dangerous weapon means any explosive or incendiary device as defined in NRS 202.260, a switchblade knife, nunchaku or trefoil as defined by NRS 202.350, a blackjack, billy club or metal knuckles.
    (Ord. No. 5652, 1, 2-9-05)


    Now as I read this I see that it says "during his commission of a violation of any section of this chapter" so as long as we don't throw trash around, or play loud music, or run nude in the park we should be OK


    Here is the link to the Reno Muni Code

    http://library.municode.com/index.as...ateName=Nevada


    Thoughts? Comments?' I am still learning to read the laws as they are wrote, but sometimes I get confused


    I know the ordinances are preempted but have yet to be changed or challenged for Sparks or Washoe County

  2. #2
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    write the commissioners a letter asking them what makes them believe these prohibitions are enforcible then contact your legislator. They are stepping on the legislature's toes.

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    If it is a city park, it is not a county park, and of course if it is in Reno then it is not in Sparks. No local ordinance attempts to restrict carry at the parks in Reno. As long as you are not committing any other violations under that section you are free to carry in the parks.

    As for Washoe County & Sparks.... violating their codes is gambling on whether they are preempted by state law. I believe they are preempted, but violate them at your own risk.

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    In the past I've written to my county commissioner and to officials in Sparks and haven't received any responses. I've also e-mailed my legislators (or at least Raggio, I'm not sure if I tried my other legislator,) and they also did not give me a response.

    Bill Raggio has never responded to anything I've ever contacted him about.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 08-18-2010 at 02:46 AM.

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    If it is a city park, it is not a county park, and of course if it is in Reno then it is not in Sparks. No local ordinance attempts to restrict carry at the parks in Reno. As long as you are not committing any other violations under that section you are free to carry in the parks.

    As for Washoe County & Sparks.... violating their codes is gambling on whether they are preempted by state law. I believe they are preempted, but violate them at your own risk.
    Thats what I got out of it also

    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    In the past I've written to my county commissioner and to officials in Sparks and haven't received any responses. I've also e-mailed my legislators (or at least Raggio, I'm not sure if I tried my other legislator,) and they also did not give me a response.

    Bill Raggio has never responded to anything I've ever contacted him about.
    Ok well i guess its time to start writing letters, attending some city and county meetings.

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    Same as the city law prohibiting "dangerous weapons" in the courthouse: pre-empted by state law.

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    Well got a short speech wrote out and I will be at the Sparks city council meeting on Mon at 3pm, and the Reno city Council on Wed at 12pm pointing out that there Park Ordinance's are wrong and they need to change them, I figure I will start there and see what becomes of this.

    And if nothing, maybe do some more writing letters to the Legislature, maybe get the media involved, Who knows.

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    In your speech mention any police officer or deputy enforcing the local ordinances would be committing a crime and subject to arrest, criminal prosecution, and civil liability. There's no carrot so mention the stick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    In your speech mention any police officer or deputy enforcing the local ordinances would be committing a crime and subject to arrest, criminal prosecution, and civil liability. There's no carrot so mention the stick.
    What is the criminal penalty for violating the preemption statute under 268.418?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    What is the criminal penalty for violating the preemption statute under 268.418?
    NRS 200.460 - False Imprisonment?

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john-in-reno View Post
    Reno Muni Code


    Sec. 8.23.140. - Carrying dangerous weapons.
    Any person in possession of a dangerous knife or dangerous weapon during his commission of a violation of any section of this chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
    (1)
    Dangerous knife means a knife having a blade that is two inches or more in length from the tip of the knife which is customarily sharpened to the unsharpened extension of the blade which forms the hinge connecting the blade to the handle.
    (3)
    Dangerous weapon means any explosive or incendiary device as defined in NRS 202.260, a switchblade knife, nunchaku or trefoil as defined by NRS 202.350, a blackjack, billy club or metal knuckles.
    (Ord. No. 5652, 1, 2-9-05)
    I just got off the phone with the Civil Division in the Reno City Hall and we had a nice talk and got this straightened out

    As you can see dangerous weapon is defined as any explosive or incendiary device, a switchblade knife, nunchaku or trefoil, blackjack, billy club or metal knuckles

    There is NO mention of Firearm or Gun so as far as Reno goes Looks like Open and Concealed Carry in Reno Parks is OK

    Now just to work on Sparks and Washoe County
    Last edited by john-in-reno; 08-20-2010 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by john-in-reno View Post
    I just got off the phone with the Civil Division in the Reno City Hall and we had a nice talk and got this straightened out

    As you can see dangerous weapon is defined as any explosive or incendiary device, a switchblade knife, nunchaku or trefoil, blackjack, billy club or metal knuckles

    There is NO mention of Firearm or Gun so as far as Reno goes Looks like Open and Concealed Carry in Reno Parks is OK

    Now just to work on Sparks and Washoe County
    Wouldn't/couldn't ammunition be considered an explosive device? Gun powder is certainly explosive.
    Last edited by gmijackso; 08-20-2010 at 02:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmijackso View Post
    Wouldn't/couldn't ammunition be considered an explosive device? Gun powder is certainly explosive.
    No. An explosive device is one which has a mechanism for setting it off, such as a timer or fuse, which is incorporated into it (that's how it's a "device"). Ammunition must be initiated by an external device (a firing pin of some sort).

    Placing an unfired round in a device designed to set it off in a way which will likely result in an explosion makes the COMBINATION an explosive device -- separate them and there is no explosive device.

    That's like a pop bottle full of styrofoam peanuts is merely trash, unless you attach it to the muzzle of a firearm, then it becomes a suppressor, and is subject to the $200 tax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    No. An explosive device is one which has a mechanism for setting it off, such as a timer or fuse, which is incorporated into it (that's how it's a "device"). Ammunition must be initiated by an external device (a firing pin of some sort).

    Placing an unfired round in a device designed to set it off in a way which will likely result in an explosion makes the COMBINATION an explosive device -- separate them and there is no explosive device.

    That's like a pop bottle full of styrofoam peanuts is merely trash, unless you attach it to the muzzle of a firearm, then it becomes a suppressor, and is subject to the $200 tax.
    Does that mean that the gunpowder contained within isn't an explosive? I guess technically it doesn't say "explosive device" is says "explosive".

    Since "A firearm is any device that was designed to be used as a weapon and operates by ejecting a projectile (bullet) through a barrel using explosive or combustive force."

    I think it could be construed that via the legal definition of a firearm, that the ammo is an explosive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmijackso View Post
    Does that mean that the gunpowder contained within isn't an explosive? I guess technically it doesn't say "explosive device" is says "explosive".

    Since "A firearm is any device that was designed to be used as a weapon and operates by ejecting a projectile (bullet) through a barrel using explosive or combustive force."

    I think it could be construed that via the legal definition of a firearm, that the ammo is an explosive.
    Now THAT is a creative stretch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmijackso View Post
    Does that mean that the gunpowder contained within isn't an explosive? I guess technically it doesn't say "explosive device" is says "explosive".

    Since "A firearm is any device that was designed to be used as a weapon and operates by ejecting a projectile (bullet) through a barrel using explosive or combustive force."

    I think it could be construed that via the legal definition of a firearm, that the ammo is an explosive.
    Yes, propellants are considered explosives.

    No, a cartridge is not an explosive device. A FIREARM is a device which uses an explosive, in the same way a car is a device which uses an inflammable fuel, but a gas tank is not considered an inflammable device.

    You have to be careful here -- there are legal definitions to some of the words we use which can turn around to bite us. If YOU believe that ammo is an "explosive device," and some hoplophobic prosecutor manages to link your words here to you when walking down the street, he can make your life far more exciting -- and YOU will PAY him to do it to you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Yes, propellants are considered explosives.

    No, a cartridge is not an explosive device. A FIREARM is a device which uses an explosive, in the same way a car is a device which uses an inflammable fuel, but a gas tank is not considered an inflammable device.

    You have to be careful here -- there are legal definitions to some of the words we use which can turn around to bite us. If YOU believe that ammo is an "explosive device," and some hoplophobic prosecutor manages to link your words here to you when walking down the street, he can make your life far more exciting -- and YOU will PAY him to do it to you!
    So is a cartridge an explosive then?

    The "As you can see dangerous weapon is defined as any explosive or incendiary device, a switchblade knife, nunchaku or trefoil, blackjack, billy club or metal knuckles" would then need to be determined to which meaning is lawful as to the grouping of the words. Do they mane "(explosive or incendiary) device" i.e. "explosive device or incendiary device", or do they mean "(explosive) or (incendiary device)"?

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    They mean a device which is explosive and/or incendiary.

    Remember that, technically, a strike-anywhere match is BOTH explosive and incendiary, but only become unlawful when you make a device using them which is intended to be explosive or incendiary . . .and matches are common in parks, both with the slow-suicide crowd and with people who want to use barbecues.

    Ammunition is exempted from laws governing use and possession of explosives EXCEPT when it includes explosive projectiles.

    It comes down to common sense and case law. I haven't heard of a case where a court found that standard small arms ammunition was an explosive device.

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    Technically speaking, smokeless powder does not explode. It does, however, burn very quickly.

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    When I have ordered powder and primers on line, they are delivered marked with "flamible solid" hazmat labels, not "explosive" labels.

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    Smokeless powder is HAZMAT Class 1.1C -- "Propellant explosive substance or other deflagrating explosive substance or article containing such explosive substance." The "article containing" would include a loaded cartridge or a can of bulk powder.

    Gunpowder ("black powder") in bulk is HAZMAT Class 1.1D -- "Secondary detonating explosive substance or black powder or article containing a secondary detonating explosive substance, in each case without means of initiation and without a propelling charge, or article containing a primary explosive substance and containing two or more effective protective features."

    A cartridge loaded with gunpowder is HAZMAT Class 1.1F -- "Article containing a secondary detonating explosive substance with its means of initiation, with a propelling charge (other than one containing flammable liquid, gel or hypergolic liquid) or without a propelling charge." In this case, "means of initiation" would be the primer.

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