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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Ground Zero Mosque

    The answer seemed obvious to me as soon as the buildings fell. Build them back one story taller. Right now.

    But nothing has been done. Nearly 10 years have passed, and all society has done is cry and debate and screw itself. Hand-wringing and panty-wetting. "What should we do at the site?"

    There should be a memorial; at the TOP of the NEW Trade Center that DOESN'T EXIST. That extra floor, one story taller, etc...

    I say the enemy deserves to plant their flag there. We didn't even try. There really isn't any debate. We had 10 friggin' years to be Americans, and did nothing. The real question is how could we expect them NOT to do it? 10 years! 10 friggin' years!

    The only real response our society has had, is to strip our own Constitution bare. The war? At best, it's a distraction to what has happened on our own soil. Our own government has done orders of magnitude worse to us than any terrorists ever dreamed of.

    They deserve their mosque. As a nation and a society, we're a bunch of spineless idiots.

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    Sweet!

    Sweet post/ I agree, need more backbone and more men to STAND UP. Old school & Proud of it!

  3. #3
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    All Americans were victims of 9/11, including the Muslim ones. How do you think terrorist/extremest view Muslims who co-exist in America? Even worse than the rest of Americans, because we are 'traitors.'

    Claiming the Mosque is 'the enemy planting their flag' is wrong. Very wrong. Many of those Muslim immigrated to the US in order to flee the same ilk that hijacked those planes.

    I agree with the rest of the post. The memorials should have been built on the top floors of the new, higher towers.

    Hell if it were up to me, I'd put big-ass airplane statues on the roofs that said "**** you" down the fuselages.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-18-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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    Well, a majority of Americans and New Yorkers are protesting the building of the mosque at Ground Zero, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg has basically stated that democracy is stronger than the will of the people.

    And now Nancy Pelosi wants an investigation on the groups protesting the mosque.

    This is what happens when you have a tyranny for a government, folks.

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    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    Unless you wish to patronize the place, I can see no reason why anybody would care.
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    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    Ok.

    Are you an ardent supporter of the 2nd A?

    Are you an ardent supporter of the Bill of Rights?

    Are you an ardent supporter of the Constitution of the United States?

    Then what is the problem?

    The 1st A applies to all citizens of the United States, including Muslims, Wiccans, Jews, Hindu, Christian, etc.

    There is a right to religion, and assembly granted to them by the Constitution. No more needs to be said.

    But, hey how about some FYI: Were you aware there is a Muslim community on Washington Ave, in Lower Manhattan long before the WTC was built there? Were you aware there are 7 other mosques in Lower Manhattan? Were you aware there is already a mosque within 2 blocks of the WTC? Were you aware this mosque held prayers for the victims of 9/11? Were you aware over 56 of those who died in the WTC Towers were Muslim?

    Would it surprise you there was not much discussion about the Mosque until a blogger pushed it?

    Why the Towers have not been rebuilt is multi-fold.
    First, whenever anyone has a Political Interest in a development, such as a building, it is most always delayed. This is the mother of all political interests. It has, to my knowledge been redesigned at least 4-5 times, due in part, to these political interests.
    Second, the WTC is owned by the NYC Port Authority. Yes, the same authority in charge of ports, airports, bridges, and subways in NYC. This makes it, a bureaucracy, and since when does bureaucracies move quickly, and on budget?
    Third, due to the land being used for the WTC, must by code, be profitable or at least sustainable, instead of the WTC land being used for a proper memorial, the building must be built to create enough profit to meet its upkeep. This also contributed to the redesigns of the WTC.
    Fourth, the need for Class A Office space is exceptionally weak right now, making delay of the WTC more economically feasible, as the rents must sustain the property...

    Bloomberg is a bit off. (I believe he is always off since that MAIG stunt pulled at TN gun shows...) But the Republic and the Constitution protects the rights of the minority, even if the majority hates it.
    Last edited by HvyMtl; 08-18-2010 at 04:56 PM.
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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Ho-Hum. Non-issue.

    First off, the folks who want to build this thing say they want to promote "harmony". They ought to realize that putting up something that prompts so much atonal yowling from all sides is counter-productive (if that is really their goal). It's kind of like saying, "Sure my cousin raped your mom, but he's the black sheep of our family. But say, I really think it would heal things between you and me if you let your sister and my brother consummate their wedding in your guest bedroom"

    Second, not to worry. 70 percent of New Yorkers are opposed to this. Union labor is going to be necessary for at least part of the essential construction. And the permits required? the foot-dragging and bribes? The paying off the mob for various stuff?

    You cheese off enough New Yorkers and you won't be able to rent a room in a flophouse, much less build anything.

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    What mosque? How do you define ground zero?

    Can someone please stop the political handwringing and lying as if there were some place that would be okay, but it's just "the location" that bothers them?

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Alexcabbie says

    It's a non-issue because the underhanded and illegal business practices of NYC will violate their rights for us, so we don't have to.

    Sounds like Sudan. The Sudanese gov't refuses to acknowledge the deaths in Darfur, because a militia is doing the wet-work for them, so it doesn't count.

    It's amazing how easy it is to fall into hypocrisy with just a little emotional entanglement. Even worse the anger is misguided. You are working against people who are victims just like you and I. Grouping victims with their perpetrators isn't just offensive and insulting, but evil.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    I realize that it may be distasteful to some but how can we say that we love liberty and freedom and deny others their right to religious freedom? If they have met the requirements for zoning and there is no proof that it is going to be a bomb factory I say just let them build it. Any effort to suppress religious freedom will only serve to defame our character as a nation and affirm the hatred by Muslims toward this country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    What mosque? How do you define ground zero?

    Can someone please stop the political handwringing and lying as if there were some place that would be okay, but it's just "the location" that bothers them?
    Well, considering that one of the landing gears ended up in the building, I'd say it qualifies as being at ground zero. Also, if you look at a map of the area, it is approximately the same distance from the new tower as the holes in the ground are.

    It is 560 feet from the holes in the ground.

    There will be a mosque in the building. Yeah, the whole building is not a mosque. It is a "community center" (where there is no Muslim community) and will contain a mosque.

    So, "Ground Zero mosque" describes the facility quite accurately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t1m0thy View Post
    I realize that it may be distasteful to some but how can we say that we love liberty and freedom and deny others their right to religious freedom? If they have met the requirements for zoning and there is no proof that it is going to be a bomb factory I say just let them build it. Any effort to suppress religious freedom will only serve to defame our character as a nation and affirm the hatred by Muslims toward this country.
    No one is saying they should be denied Liberty. This is a strawman.

    1. The imam should listen to public opinion and exercise his Liberty not to build at Ground Zero.

    2. The city of NY should stop bending over backwards to make this happen, and make it just as difficult as they would for anyone else to build there.

    3. The city of NY should stop throwing up crazy additional roadblocks to stop the rebuilding of a church that was already at Ground Zero, but destroyed in the attack. Nine years after the attack, NYC has successfully kept this church from being built.

  13. #13
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    Greg Gutfield To Open A Gay Bar Next To Ground Zero Mosque for “Islamic Gay Men"

    Greg Gutfield To Open A Gay Bar Next To Ground Zero Mosque To Cater To “Islamic Gay Men”

    by Jon Bershad | 8:23 pm, August 9th, 2010

    No, this is not a joke. In fact, it is instead one of the most brilliant pieces of provocations in recent years. Greg Gutfield from Fox News’ Red Eye announced today via his blog that he is actively speaking to investors and plans on opening a gay bar next to the controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero in New York. To make matters worse (better?) the bar will be specifically designed to cater to homosexuals of the Islamic faith. God, this is going to be an exciting block.

    Here’s Gutfield’s entire post which he will expand upon during tonight’s Red Eye:

    “So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it’s all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.

    “As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque – after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law – who can stop them?

    “Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I’ve decided to do the same thing.

    “I’m announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

    “This is not a joke. I’ve already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and tolerance.

    “As you know, the Muslim faith doesn’t look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I’m building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

    “The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps – but still want to dance.

    “Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up their center near Ground Zero, is no different than mine.

    “My place, however, will have better music.”
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Well, considering that one of the landing gears ended up in the building, I'd say it qualifies as being at ground zero. Also, if you look at a map of the area, it is approximately the same distance from the new tower as the holes in the ground are.

    It is 560 feet from the holes in the ground.

    There will be a mosque in the building. Yeah, the whole building is not a mosque. It is a "community center" (where there is no Muslim community) and will contain a mosque.

    So, "Ground Zero mosque" describes the facility quite accurately.
    Odd, dust and passports and all kinds of stuff were strewn ALL OVER NEW YORK. Does that make all of New York "ground zero"? What is the magic distance that would suddenly make you stop playing this game of "oh waah it's too close"? Is there one, or do you just hate Muslims?

    Do you consider a YMCA to be a church? What if a church meets there, or a prayer group? I mean, it's called the "young men's christian association", which is certainly much more explicitly religious than "Park 51" or "Cordoba House". But no, it's a community center, where the primary focus of the activities there are things other than the possible talking to one's self that christians may engage in while there. You don't call it a church because, by and large, it's a community center.

    Yet somehow if a group from a religion you're bigoted towards wants to build something, there's a problem. I suppose that should come with the territory of being a bigot, but still, it's disgusting to me to see a so-called freedom advocate playing the "just because it's legal doesn't mean it's proper" horse-shiat game. "No Muslim community" my ass - http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/01/05/muslim.html and http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/08/0...ex.html?hpt=T2
    outline the hundreds of existing mosques and almost 1 million Muslims living there. Face it, this isn't about "can" vs "should" - it's about "eye95 dislikes" versus "eye95 likes", regardless of facts, figures, or lack of any relationship the community center has to the events of 2001.

    In much the same way I hope Christian extremism sickens you and you would denounce it, many good people (who happen to be Muslim) denounce the extremism and violence of a very small number of those who claim to be of the same religion. Yet you judge these people as inferior, unworthy of building a community center in a place they have every right to be because you are not educated enough to differentiate a Muslim from a terrorist.

    Facing all that this country has in front of it, why is the location of this community center such a big issue to so many small people?

  15. #15
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    No one is saying they should be denied Liberty. This is a strawman.

    1. The imam should listen to public opinion and exercise his Liberty not to build at Ground Zero.
    What. The. ****. Man.

    COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack I can't believe I waited this long to put you on my ignore list.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    thank you for your well reasoned and thoughfull post Tawnos!

    im agreeing with you, alot!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Y'all understand that the ruling class is happy for the lamestream media to distract us with this mosque business? Distract us from the actual political and economic situation?

    "Good, if they're busy yammering and arguing over a mosque, they'll forget about, or maybe never even learn, about the real stuff we are up to. Lets us push our agenda along. As long as they are arguing amongst themselves, we can keep them divided. Keep divided and keep conquered."

    However, if you listen close you will catch a few more indications by what is and isn't said by government.

    One former lawyer pointed out that Pelosi's call for investigations of people objecting to the mosque is essentially a threatened violation of the 1st Amendment right to petition the government for redress of grievances. Not just a threatened violation of free speech. Not that we couldn't have guessed such was not beyond Pelosi on our own.

    Another point is the very limited discussion of property rights. Notice the government has said very, very little about property rights? They can't afford to. Not with the Republicrats and Democans both squashing, stealing, and inflating recklessly. Can't have people suddenly connect the dots that government is supposed to be protecting property rights--not stealing through repressive taxes, outright seizure of auto-makers, violating the sanctity of contracts,...
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-20-2010 at 03:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasrancher View Post
    What does this have to do with open carry? guns?
    I am against it being built so close to ground zero.
    Welcome to the social lounge.

    How close is close enough in your opinion? Is it the fact that it's built next to ground zero, or built at all that you're protesting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasrancher View Post
    As in the usa, they have other options....afganastan, iraq, yemen, iran, somilia. They can even practice shitria law there.
    Mind if I ask your religion? Perhaps I should take a guess - Christian? How would you like if someone said you shouldn't be allowed to build a YMCA near where there used to be an abortion clinic that some radical Christian blew up? If any time someone wanted to erect a church there were an uproar of people opposing it because they thought the "god" described in the bible was, frankly, a dick?

    That cool with you?

  20. #20
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Who are you??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by texasrancher View Post
    COMMENT REMOVED SHORTLY BEFORE I BANNED TEXASRANCHER
    you have made 8 posts, in your first two hours on this forum!!
    i have read all of them, you have NOTHING of value to contribute!
    now you come up with this gem..
    you have not earned any credibility yet, i think you never will.
    you will be banned... you will not be missed!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasrancher View Post
    I am YOUR god.
    Ah, it's VforVendetta/whatever name he was before, back from the grave.

    Well, nice knowing you.

  22. #22
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Hello Erichonda30, aka VFORVENDETTA, aka ericfromparuhmp

    just like last time....
    everybody deserves to know who to ignore!!!

    i noticed you went back and edited most of your posts.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  23. #23
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Gentlemen... why are you feeding the troll? Ignore it and it will go away.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  24. #24
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    it all worked out in the end

    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    Gentlemen... why are you feeding the troll? Ignore it and it will go away.
    6 hours, a new record!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
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    Actually, John detected him and banned him so fast on his previous visit that not many people even knew he was here. I'd say it was less than 2 hours.

    When you notice he is back, report his post and put him on ignore. He'll be gone before you know it.

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