Tawnos
Regular Member
Holy crap, you really think NYC is "the site of a Moslem[sic] conquest"?!
The terrorists really have won, then.
The terrorists really have won, then.
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Ground Zero Mosque
- Thread starter ixtow
- Start date
eye95
Well-known member
I have no doubt but that the intent is to celebrate the 9-11 attacks.
Tawnos
Regular Member
Then you are a fool.
*edit*
For support, I direct you to the person who is behind the project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf
Do some research before spouting more bigoted BS.
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Haz.
Regular Member
No one said it was a conquest. What was said was if a Mosques is allowed to be built it 'WILL BE SEEN AS A CONQUEST' by many.
Haz.
Regular Member
He's no fool mate.
You must know it wasnt the flying tooth fairy or Santa and his reindeer bearing gifts that smashed into the towers killing many innocent American civilians.
eye95
Well-known member
Don't worry about it. When some lack confidence in their POV or their rhetoric, they sometimes resort to name-calling. Such posts say more about the poster than about their target.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Hmmmmm. That suggests an idea.
Let 'em build the mosque. Then carefully record the number of celebrants and which countries. Then we'll know who and how many.
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Tawnos
Regular Member
And sometimes we just call a spade a spade. Only a fool or a fool following a fool would say that the former Burlington coat factory is "the site of Moslem[sic] conquest" or that "the intent is to celebrate the 9-11 attacks."
Haz, Alex most certainly said that it is the site of a conquest, not that it represents such. More than that, even if he had said "it will be seen" as such, then those who see it as such are poor of sight and idiots to boot. I've mentioned it before, and again I point out: Christians bombed the 1996 olympic games, but nobody is being a fool who says that churches shouldn't be allowed to be build there, because they will be seen as the conquest of radical christianity by many.
It's only Islamaphobes and bigoted fools who continue to play this game of insulting insinuations and attacks to besmirch the name of regular, everyday Muslims who have nothing to do with the extremists and denounce their actions. I, for one, am sick of the duplicity, sick of the intolerance, sick of the hatred being spread as "oh, it's just a reasonable opinion" or whatever the current line of BS is.
You know what, you're right, it wasn't a flying tooth fairy or santa claus who flew a jet into the towers, and it wasn't a group of muslims who spent years making laws against miscegenation, lynching people, et cetera. Where's the outrage against christian bigots who have blown up abortion providers, who shot dr tiller, etc? Where's the anger over christians who speak so hatefully they drive gays to suicide, or who say that they or pregnant unmarried females shouldn't be alllowed to be teachers, et cetera?
How about, instead of continually trying to be a dividing force, you guys start acting better towards your fellow man? Rather than attacking them as different, find those who aren't extremists and make friends, find out a bit more about their views. But for f's sake, stop claiming that someone who has throughout his life tried to make an interfaith bridge is a terrorist sympathizer and one who cheers the attacks of 9-11. It makes you look like a fool, and I will not hesitate to call you such.
Now, you can brush this off, act like my words carry no weight, whatever. You're still wrong, and still foolish.
Good day.
Tawnos
Regular Member
You know what's most striking to me about all this? I remember 9/11 vividly, the pictures around the world of candlelight vigils, signs saying things like "all of us today are USA." Quickly, Muslims responded, condemning the attacks (e.g. http://www.islamicity.com/articles/articles.asp?ref=AM0109-335). Yet here we are, 9 years later, and people have forgotten all that. Many seem to have lost (maybe they never had) the ability to separate the motives of the extreme from the abilities of the majority. They clamor for condemnation that has already come, and forget it each time they are reminded. Muslims need not live their lives as a long, drawn out set of apologies, and the sooner people drop the mistaken belief that the majority of Muslims are terrorists or sympathize with such hatred, the better our planet will be.
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The "mosque" part of the building is already there, and has been actively meeting for prayers (standing room only) since long before the mainstream media got a hold of this.
Same group that has been in the neighborhood years before 9/11. The Manhattan Mosque is even closer in to the World Trade Center Property and held prayer service for the victims of 9/11. It has been at the location, 4 blocks away from WTC, since 1970. Yet, no one attacks its existence... Yet.
So. It is there. It is alive and well. It has been there and in the neighborhood long before 9/11. Check and see how many Muslims live in the area, and have been there, peacefully, for ages.
But hey, be aggressive against them. Be judgmental, and declare all of one religion guilty of what a few actually believe and act on. Feed the terrorists. Give them reason to hate us more. Give their recruiters more fodder. Aid and abet the enemy.
Harsh. Yes.
But, I do not blame islam for all the terrorists in the world.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary...-ground-zero-show-double-standard-over-Park51
Interesting that Adult Bookstores and Strip Clubs are as close, or closer, to the "hollowed" ground. A little hypocritical?
Reread the 1st Amendment. Point to ANY SPECIFIC WORDING which would deny the right to the mosque. Bet you cannot.
The point is, your arguments are similar to the Anti-gun crowd. You cannot have the benefit of the Constitution and all of its Amendments, without the detrimental effects as well.
The Anti-2nd A want to block your Constitutional Rights, and you fight this. Yet, you in turn, want to block these people of their Constitutional Rights? Doing this undermines your position all the Rights, in the Bill of Rights, are equal.
Same group that has been in the neighborhood years before 9/11. The Manhattan Mosque is even closer in to the World Trade Center Property and held prayer service for the victims of 9/11. It has been at the location, 4 blocks away from WTC, since 1970. Yet, no one attacks its existence... Yet.
So. It is there. It is alive and well. It has been there and in the neighborhood long before 9/11. Check and see how many Muslims live in the area, and have been there, peacefully, for ages.
But hey, be aggressive against them. Be judgmental, and declare all of one religion guilty of what a few actually believe and act on. Feed the terrorists. Give them reason to hate us more. Give their recruiters more fodder. Aid and abet the enemy.
Harsh. Yes.
But, I do not blame islam for all the terrorists in the world.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary...-ground-zero-show-double-standard-over-Park51
Interesting that Adult Bookstores and Strip Clubs are as close, or closer, to the "hollowed" ground. A little hypocritical?
Reread the 1st Amendment. Point to ANY SPECIFIC WORDING which would deny the right to the mosque. Bet you cannot.
The point is, your arguments are similar to the Anti-gun crowd. You cannot have the benefit of the Constitution and all of its Amendments, without the detrimental effects as well.
The Anti-2nd A want to block your Constitutional Rights, and you fight this. Yet, you in turn, want to block these people of their Constitutional Rights? Doing this undermines your position all the Rights, in the Bill of Rights, are equal.
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Tawnos
Regular Member
Now, watch them turn around and use the same arguments the anti-2A crowd uses. "Oh, it's not about rights, it's about sensitivity" or some bullsh-t like that.
Haz.
Regular Member
"Where's the outrage against christian bigots . . . . ?"
Hi Tawnos, you wrote;
I though Christians were followers of Christ? If those mentioned in your comment acted in the way portrayed, then they are not true Christians but inconsiderate trouble makers portraying themselves to be Christians, just like the majority of Muslim troublemakers portraying themselves as innocent lovers of their fellow man regardless of their religious convictions.. True followers of Christ would not go about judging others; "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:" (Luke 6:37).
And;
As a free moral agent you are entitled to your opinion weather wrong or right as we all are, but you lighten the weight of your own words all by yourself when you began personalising the thread by attacking the posters rather than the topic. Haz.
Hi Tawnos, you wrote;
.
I though Christians were followers of Christ? If those mentioned in your comment acted in the way portrayed, then they are not true Christians but inconsiderate trouble makers portraying themselves to be Christians, just like the majority of Muslim troublemakers portraying themselves as innocent lovers of their fellow man regardless of their religious convictions.. True followers of Christ would not go about judging others; "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:" (Luke 6:37).
And;
.
As a free moral agent you are entitled to your opinion weather wrong or right as we all are, but you lighten the weight of your own words all by yourself when you began personalising the thread by attacking the posters rather than the topic. Haz.
Tawnos
Regular Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Let's face it, both religious groups have their crazies. You just choose to attack the Muslim ones as a unique case.
Christians can act as bigoted, hateful, and unmoralistic people. Muslims can act as bigoted, hateful, and unmoralistic people. Atheists can act as bigoted, hateful and unmoralistic people. They remain Christians, Muslims, and atheists, but to say one group is specially exempt, or is "not really a <group member>" because of those actions doesn't change the fact they self-associate with that group...
What I'm asking you to do, and what you can do for Christians it seems, but not Muslims, is to separate those who act horrifically from the rest.
As for eye95, he said a foolish thing: that Park51 is a place where the intent is to celebrate the attacks that took place on 9-11-2001. I called him a fool for it, and I retain that opinion until he shows some evidence that is even a remote desire of those who are working on and supporting Park51.
Haz.
Regular Member
.
Where does one begin to separate them.
When the muslim gangs, gangs pack raped several innocent young girls, (Leb style), as they laughed in court, not so long ago here Down Under, the local Imam pubicly stated that the girls deserved everything they got because of the way they were dressed. He stated, they were raw meat thrown to dogs, and should expect to be eaten.
What I found increadable was the fact than NOT ONE LOCAL Muslim father or mother spoke up and said what happened was evil? many said their little Achmuds, Kaamils Lutfi's and their perps were good little boys and did not deserve to go to jail.
I live here and saw what was not happening. The only thing that has not happened yet is for one of them and their mob to call for a Mosque to be built on the land were these animals commited their crimes.
Tawnos
Regular Member
Shall we look at the history of Christians who have committed atrocities, or is it okay that they have had horrible people who have done horrible things? My point is simple, and it seems to still fly right by: there's no justification for a subset of a group of people to do something, and there's no justification to punish the remainder of that group due to that subset. We're all humans on this spec of rock in a ginormous universe.
I've pointed out before that christians have bombed and murdered in recent times. Can you show me the article where they had a ton of people opposing the construction of a church in a nearby location? If not, why not?
Haz.
Regular Member
Leaving religious extremism and any nationalistic extremists out of it, I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
I have never ever seen in all my years, or ever read, or even heard, of any young Australian, young Italian, Greek, German, Swiss, or any other imigrants or nationalites except always the Muslims, here in my country, driving about in gangs and calling their mates via their cell phones saying, "we have a couple of young aussie girls in our car who we just kidnapped, and were taking them to x, y, z, park tonight and we are going to pack rape them aussie style, Italian style, Greek style, German or Swiss style, come join us at 8pm. NOT ONCE, EVER?
Yet Muslim gangs here are always in the news regarding some crime or other, and the local Imams and the parents of these criminals never ever pubicly condem what they do or even say Boo!
If the do say anything at all, its always, "My boy is he's-a good boy, he's-a do no ronk!" "The victims, deserve all they getting."
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Jack House
Regular Member
The Westboro Baptist Church said the same thing about a girl that was gang raped then incinerated alive in Kansas just a little over a month ago.
That is a behavior not exclusive to Muslims and is used by Christians more than anyone else.
Tawnos
Regular Member
Uh, Muslim is neither immigrant nor nationality, and your comments smack of thinly veiled racism.
Haz.
Regular Member
No it doesn't.
I am a simple retired coal miner, a layman, I dont know where they came from to my country, but what I do know is they are 'Muslim.' How do I know this much? Because they cry out that they are Muslim and are being victimised when caught comitting their gang related and individual crimes, be they from Afganistan, the middle east, Indonesia, or where ever they come from. The thing is this. Those Muslims committing these crimes are mostely the CHILDREN of Muslim imigrants. They are young men in their late teens and early twenties raised in Muslim homes, attending our schools, their Mosqe's, and learning their ways from their parents. And as I said, not one parent, or Imam ever condems what they do in breaking OUR LAWS.
Who's trying to put a thin veil or burqua over anything regarding this?
Not me mate, Haz.
Haz.
Regular Member
US should prepare for war with Muslims, Failed Times Square bomber.
http://www.news.com.au/world/failed...ld-brace-for-war/story-e6frfkyi-1225934643128
Headlines down under this morning. I am wondering if an Muslims in the US are up in arms about this revelation by a convicted Muslim bomber?
Will the Imam's stop the push to build a Mosque at Ground Zero seeing this war with Muslims is about to begin? Haz.
Failed Times Square bomber sentenced to life, says US should brace for war
From: NewsCore October 06, 2010 4:03AM
Faisal Shahzad, who tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square in May 2010 was today sentenced to life in prison / AP Source: AP
Failed bomber sentenced to life in jail
Remains unrepentant and defiant to judge
Warns the US to prepare for war with Muslims
FAILED Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad said the US should brace itself for war as he was sentenced today to life behind bars.
Defiant Times Square bomber gets life. A Pakistani-American has been sentenced to life in prison for a botched attempt to bomb Times Square.
"Brace yourselves because the war with the Muslims has just begun," a defiant Shahzad told the judge before the sentence was delivered.
"The defeat of the US is imminent and will happen in the near future."
Shahzad, 30, a married father of two and naturalised American citizen who lived in Bridgeport, Connecticut, had pleaded guilty on June 21 in Manhattan federal court to 10 felonies, including international terrorism and trying to use a weapon of mass destruction.
Shahzad put together an improvised car bomb - a 1993 Pathfinder fitted with 113 kg of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel, three 11 kg propane tanks and two five-gallon gasoline canisters - that failed to ignite.
In handing down the life sentence, US District Court Judge Mirian Cedarbaum said the serious nature of the crime, as well as Shahzad’s continued lacked of remorse, factored into her decision, The Wall Street Journal reported.
"The defendant has repeatedly expressed his total lack of remorse, his desire if given the opportunity to repeat the crime; so there is really no basis here for me to believe that somebody who falsely swore allegiance to this country, who swore to defend this country, who took an oath a year ago to defend this country and to be loyal to it, has now announced and by his conduct has evidenced his desire is not to defend the United States or Americans, but to kill them," the judge said.
"Those are all matters - serious matters - I must take into consideration in setting sentence."
Bomb experts who have studied Shahzad's design before using it to build a working model say clearly demonstrated his deadly intent, The New York Post reported.
"Had the bombing played out as Shahzad had so carefully planned, the lives of numerous residents and visitors of the city would have been lost and countless others would have been forever traumatized," prosecutors wrote in court papers.
Shahzad's bomb fizzled before it could do any harm, doomed by faulty wiring and ingredients such as a low-grade fertiliser that could not explode.
He has told the feds that the Pakistan Taliban provided him with more than $16,000 and explosives training last year.
Shahzad has said the botched attack would avenge the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda in Iraq leader who was blown to bits when a US fighter jet dropped two 226 kg bombs on his "safe" house in 2006, The New York Post reported.
"I will carry this attack on their behalf, and I hope that it will please Muslims," Shahzad raves in the video linking him to the bungled May 1 bomb plot that forced a massive evacuation in the heart of the city.
Two days after his botched attempt, authorities nabbed Shahzad as he sat aboard a Dubai-bound plane departing from JFK Airport.
"With jihad, the basis of Islam can be enforced, and the word of Allah and his religion will prevail," Shahzad rages in the video, which aired recently on Dubai-based television station Al Arabiya.
Shahzad's wife, Huma Mian, and two children are believed to be hiding in Karachi, Pakistan.
Manhattan US Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement: "Faisal Shahzad is a remorseless terrorist who betrayed his adopted country and today was rightly sentenced to spend the rest of his life in federal prison.
"While his life sentence ensures that he will never again threaten the security of New York City and our nation, together we must remain vigilant against those like him who wish to do us harm."
Read more about failed Times Square bomber preparing for war at the New York Post.
http://www.news.com.au/world/failed...ld-brace-for-war/story-e6frfkyi-1225934643128
Headlines down under this morning. I am wondering if an Muslims in the US are up in arms about this revelation by a convicted Muslim bomber?
.
Will the Imam's stop the push to build a Mosque at Ground Zero seeing this war with Muslims is about to begin? Haz.
Failed Times Square bomber sentenced to life, says US should brace for war
From: NewsCore October 06, 2010 4:03AM
Faisal Shahzad, who tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square in May 2010 was today sentenced to life in prison / AP Source: AP
Failed bomber sentenced to life in jail
Remains unrepentant and defiant to judge
Warns the US to prepare for war with Muslims
FAILED Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad said the US should brace itself for war as he was sentenced today to life behind bars.
Defiant Times Square bomber gets life. A Pakistani-American has been sentenced to life in prison for a botched attempt to bomb Times Square.
"Brace yourselves because the war with the Muslims has just begun," a defiant Shahzad told the judge before the sentence was delivered.
"The defeat of the US is imminent and will happen in the near future."
Shahzad, 30, a married father of two and naturalised American citizen who lived in Bridgeport, Connecticut, had pleaded guilty on June 21 in Manhattan federal court to 10 felonies, including international terrorism and trying to use a weapon of mass destruction.
Shahzad put together an improvised car bomb - a 1993 Pathfinder fitted with 113 kg of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel, three 11 kg propane tanks and two five-gallon gasoline canisters - that failed to ignite.
In handing down the life sentence, US District Court Judge Mirian Cedarbaum said the serious nature of the crime, as well as Shahzad’s continued lacked of remorse, factored into her decision, The Wall Street Journal reported.
"The defendant has repeatedly expressed his total lack of remorse, his desire if given the opportunity to repeat the crime; so there is really no basis here for me to believe that somebody who falsely swore allegiance to this country, who swore to defend this country, who took an oath a year ago to defend this country and to be loyal to it, has now announced and by his conduct has evidenced his desire is not to defend the United States or Americans, but to kill them," the judge said.
"Those are all matters - serious matters - I must take into consideration in setting sentence."
Bomb experts who have studied Shahzad's design before using it to build a working model say clearly demonstrated his deadly intent, The New York Post reported.
"Had the bombing played out as Shahzad had so carefully planned, the lives of numerous residents and visitors of the city would have been lost and countless others would have been forever traumatized," prosecutors wrote in court papers.
Shahzad's bomb fizzled before it could do any harm, doomed by faulty wiring and ingredients such as a low-grade fertiliser that could not explode.
He has told the feds that the Pakistan Taliban provided him with more than $16,000 and explosives training last year.
Shahzad has said the botched attack would avenge the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al Qaeda in Iraq leader who was blown to bits when a US fighter jet dropped two 226 kg bombs on his "safe" house in 2006, The New York Post reported.
"I will carry this attack on their behalf, and I hope that it will please Muslims," Shahzad raves in the video linking him to the bungled May 1 bomb plot that forced a massive evacuation in the heart of the city.
Two days after his botched attempt, authorities nabbed Shahzad as he sat aboard a Dubai-bound plane departing from JFK Airport.
"With jihad, the basis of Islam can be enforced, and the word of Allah and his religion will prevail," Shahzad rages in the video, which aired recently on Dubai-based television station Al Arabiya.
Shahzad's wife, Huma Mian, and two children are believed to be hiding in Karachi, Pakistan.
Manhattan US Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement: "Faisal Shahzad is a remorseless terrorist who betrayed his adopted country and today was rightly sentenced to spend the rest of his life in federal prison.
"While his life sentence ensures that he will never again threaten the security of New York City and our nation, together we must remain vigilant against those like him who wish to do us harm."
Read more about failed Times Square bomber preparing for war at the New York Post.
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