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Thread: Detained by Biddeford Police Dept. 18AUG2010

  1. #1
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    Detained by Biddeford Police Dept. 18AUG2010

    I was detained today by Biddeford PD while walking down the street. I asserted my rights and was held for about 15 minutes.

    Here is audio of the event

  2. #2
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    Thumbs up

    We done IMO.

    They were so concerned that they never even dis-armed you... LOL

    Good Going!

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    What is your response going to be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    What is your response going to be?
    haha, it's not my first time being detained. I already wrote a letter to the chief of police. We'll see what I get for a response. I'll post my letter shortly.

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    Dear Chief Beaupre,

    Today I was detained by two of your officers (Officer Reuseau, and Officer Caywood) who had no reasonable suspicion that I had committed any crime. At the time I was open carrying a firearm in full compliance with Maine State Law. They stopped me because I was carrying the firearm, which is not a crime. They had no suspicion that I was a felon in possession of a firearm, or that I had bail conditions preventing me from possessing the firearm.

    When I asked them what crime they were investigating me for, they had no answer, yet still continued to detain me and would not let me leave when I asked to leave. Because they were not allowing me to leave, I asked to have an attorney present for questioning. They ignored my request for an attorney and continued questioning me without the presence of council.

    The Maine State Constitution states "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned." Maine Code Chapter 337B SS4681 states:

    "Whenever any person, whether or not acting under color of law, intentionally interferes or attempts to intentionally interfere by physical force or violence against a person, damage or destruction of property or trespass on property or by the threat of physical force or violence against a person, damage or destruction of property or trespass on property with the exercise or enjoyment by any other person of rights secured by the United States Constitution or the laws of the United States or of rights secured by the Constitution of Maine or laws of the State or violates section 4684-B, the Attorney General may bring a civil action for injunctive or other appropriate equitable relief in order to protect the peaceable exercise or enjoyment of the rights secured."

    I believe that your officers have violated this statute by detaining me without justification even after they admitted that I had not committed any crime and they had no reasonable suspicion that I had committed any crime. It is my understanding that once they concluded that no crime was being committed, I should have been free to leave, yet they continued to detain and question me for several more minutes.

    I have audio of this event and you can listen to it at http://schip.us/recordings/18aug2010bid.wma

    If there is any other action I need to take in order to file a formal complaint against these officers for their intrusion please inform me of how to do so. If you have any questions for me regarding this issue I can be reached at XXX-XXX-XXXX.

    I would love to know what actions are being taken to correct this behavior in your department, and I would suggest a short class for your officers on Terry v Ohio, the requirements for a detention, the rights of citizens, and the requirement that those rights be respected.

    I thank you for your time in looking into this matter and hope we can work together in the future to build a stronger community oriented approach to policing.

    Sincerely,

    Norman Hamann

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    Boyscout399, I think you handled that VERY well. I don't know if I could have done as well. I am new to OC and can't do it often because of my job. I was OC this past weekend, was stopped by local PD for a traffic infraction, and the LEO temporarily disarmed me! I was polite and cooperated in every way. When he walked up to my car, I notified him I was armed; I didn't know at the time that Washington is a no need to notify state. He asked for my DL, registration and insurance, which I gave him, then said I am going to take your gun and you can have it back when we are done. I said you do not have my permission to take my gun. He reached in, unsnapped the retention strap, removed it from the holster, and laid it on the roof of my car while he went to run the check. I am a lefty so the gun was close to the driver's side door. He came back and picked up my gun and unloaded it before he gave it back to me. I told him it was a 1911 and not to lower the hammer. He did not give me a ticket. He said I cut him off; I think he was in my blind spot. He gave me back my gun unloaded and told me to be more careful. He was alone so I understand the officer safety issure. This was my first encounter with a LEO while OCing. Washington also is not a stop and ID state, but since it was a traffic violation I had to show my DL. I didn't like it, but that was not the time or place to take it any further as I was not detained once the check on my DL was completed. I am not pursuing anything at this time, even though I really didn't appreciate it. Other OCers in my area have been stopped but not disarmed. At least I did protest it, I remembered to do that much; unfortuately I forgot to turn my recorder on. I hope to be better prepared if it happens again. Thanks so much for sharing your experience, it will help me know what to say should I encounter a similar situation.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Boyscout399, I think you handled that VERY well. I don't know if I could have done as well. I am new to OC and can't do it often because of my job. I was OC this past weekend, was stopped by local PD for a traffic infraction, and the LEO temporarily disarmed me! I was polite and cooperated in every way. When he walked up to my car, I notified him I was armed; I didn't know at the time that Washington is a no need to notify state. He asked for my DL, registration and insurance, which I gave him, then said I am going to take your gun and you can have it back when we are done. I said you do not have my permission to take my gun. He reached in, unsnapped the retention strap, removed it from the holster, and laid it on the roof of my car while he went to run the check. I am a lefty so the gun was close to the driver's side door. He came back and picked up my gun and unloaded it before he gave it back to me. I told him it was a 1911 and not to lower the hammer. He did not give me a ticket. He said I cut him off; I think he was in my blind spot. He gave me back my gun unloaded and told me to be more careful. He was alone so I understand the officer safety issure. This was my first encounter with a LEO while OCing. Washington also is not a stop and ID state, but since it was a traffic violation I had to show my DL. I didn't like it, but that was not the time or place to take it any further as I was not detained once the check on my DL was completed. I am not pursuing anything at this time, even though I really didn't appreciate it. Other OCers in my area have been stopped but not disarmed. At least I did protest it, I remembered to do that much; unfortuately I forgot to turn my recorder on. I hope to be better prepared if it happens again. Thanks so much for sharing your experience, it will help me know what to say should I encounter a similar situation.
    just make sure you are aware of all your local laws and follow them precisely. If you want to object to anything the LEO is doing, make sure you know your laws, know your facts, and know for certain that he is unauthorized to do whatever he is doing. If there is any question in your mind, err on the side of compliance.

    That's just my opinion. In a traffic stop, I ALWAYS notify that I'm carrying. I don't object to being disarmed for officers safety in a traffic stop because if he's stopped you for a violation of the law, then you've already shown him that you are unlawful and it's not a far stretch for him to feel that you are dangerous and be justified in the disarming.

    However, in a walking down the street situation where you have clearly not violated the law, they have no reason to detain you, and therefore no justification to continue the detention once you've asked to leave.

  8. #8
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    Neither link will play for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Neither link will play for me.
    They're Windows Media Audio files. They will play in Windows Media Player. Are you on a Mac or Linux computer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    They're Windows Media Audio files. They will play in Windows Media Player. Are you on a Mac or Linux computer?
    PC w/Windows XP - strange thing is I watch/listen to WM files all of the time. These show they are "not responding' when I check my task manager.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    You are correct and I do see your point. I don't understand why he unloaded my gun before he gave it to me. That was unnecessary; if he was afraid that I was a danger and going to shoot him why give it back to me at all? Several of the guys on the WA forum were rather upset about it and said that he violated my 4th A rights. I can see the officer's point of view also; he knows absolutely nothing about me or any other person he stops. He is protecting himself and I don't blame him.

    Your case is entirely different; you did nothing wrong. I very much admire the way you handled it. This is one of the things I love about this forum, we can learn a lot from each other.

    BTW, I am a law abiding upright citizen and it has been years since I have been stopped for anything, so this came as a shock as I didn't know what I had done wrong when he stopped me. Ah well, it's water under the bridge now. I hope those officers learned something and will be educated on the laws in your state. Kudos to you for standing up for your rights and not knuckling under. You and others like you ARE the reason that the laws are updated, and PD's are brought into line with state laws. By standing up for your rights you have done a public service for everyone in your state.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    PC w/Windows XP - strange thing is I watch/listen to WM files all of the time. These show they are "not responding' when I check my task manager.
    Here's a Youtube link to the audio
    Last edited by boyscout399; 08-18-2010 at 10:38 PM.

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    Thumbs up All in days work

    thumbs up good job

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    Good job. Next time they say we have to find out if you have a concealed firearms permit tell them you don't need one to openly carry in Maine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    What is your response going to be?
    So you're giving them a pass on the Constitutional violations. We have only the rights that we defend.

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    I hope boyscout sues them. I remember when he posted his first detainment on glocktalk. he commented "nice dog" to a lady, refering to her dog, and the lady called the cops. They searched him and found he had a few knives. I think they arrested him and the knives couldn't be used as evidence because of the illegal search. There was no RAS to search him in the first place.

    Anyway, god job with the encounter, now follow up with more than a letter.

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    Good letter, sir!

    Where were you walking this time?
    Last edited by RussP; 08-19-2010 at 09:49 AM.
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    Would suggest you post your letter with you tube clip for web junkies that don't often vist opencarry.org or at least a link to this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussP View Post
    Good letter, sir!

    Where were you walking this time?
    Rt. 111 in Biddeford I was between Rite Aid and the Post Office in a residential area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    I hope boyscout sues them. I remember when he posted his first detainment on glocktalk. he commented "nice dog" to a lady, refering to her dog, and the lady called the cops. They searched him and found he had a few knives. I think they arrested him and the knives couldn't be used as evidence because of the illegal search. There was no RAS to search him in the first place.

    Anyway, god job with the encounter, now follow up with more than a letter.
    My attorney filed a motion to get the search thrown out, but the case was dropped before the motion was even heard. The DA agreed that a pocket knife is not a dangerous or deadly weapon usually used in the attack on or defense of a person. It's usually used as a tool.

    I'm not in this for a lawsuit or for money. I carry to protect myself and to educate the public as well as the police. I would rather see the policy of the department and those individual officers change than get a mediocre payout from the city.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    So you're giving them a pass on the Constitutional violations. We have only the rights that we defend.
    A pass? Noooooooo... I never said I was giving them a pass. Right now I have a letter in to the chief of police and I'm waiting on the response.

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    What staute is suspicious activity?

    Outstanding! When you asked " what statute is suspicious activity?" I thought I was going to die laughing. Well done sir, well done.
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    Thumbs up Nice Job

    Boyscout, that was done very well. I probably would have actually remained quiet after taking my right to remain silent, but that would have been more likely to get me arrested, and your outcome was better than that no matter what happened after the arrest.

    Again, nice job.

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    Good job boyscout. I dont think they new what the hell to do. LMAO!!!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    just make sure you are aware of all your local laws and follow them precisely. If you want to object to anything the LEO is doing, make sure you know your laws, know your facts, and know for certain that he is unauthorized to do whatever he is doing. If there is any question in your mind, err on the side of compliance.

    That's just my opinion. In a traffic stop, I ALWAYS notify that I'm carrying. I don't object to being disarmed for officers safety in a traffic stop because if he's stopped you for a violation of the law, then you've already shown him that you are unlawful and it's not a far stretch for him to feel that you are dangerous and be justified in the disarming.

    However, in a walking down the street situation where you have clearly not violated the law, they have no reason to detain you, and therefore no justification to continue the detention once you've asked to leave.
    awesome job!
    xd-out

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