Detained by Biddeford Police Dept. 18AUG2010

Doug Huffman said:

So you're giving them a pass on the Constitutional violations. We have only the rights that we defend.

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A pass? Noooooooo... I never said I was giving them a pass. Right now I have a letter in to the chief of police and I'm waiting on the response.

What staute is suspicious activity?

Outstanding! When you asked " what statute is suspicious activity?" I thought I was going to die laughing. Well done sir, well done.

Nice Job

Boyscout, that was done very well. I probably would have actually remained quiet after taking my right to remain silent, but that would have been more likely to get me arrested, and your outcome was better than that no matter what happened after the arrest.

Again, nice job.

Good job boyscout. I dont think they new what the hell to do. LMAO!!!

boyscout399 said:

just make sure you are aware of all your local laws and follow them precisely. If you want to object to anything the LEO is doing, make sure you know your laws, know your facts, and know for certain that he is unauthorized to do whatever he is doing. If there is any question in your mind, err on the side of compliance.

That's just my opinion. In a traffic stop, I ALWAYS notify that I'm carrying. I don't object to being disarmed for officers safety in a traffic stop because if he's stopped you for a violation of the law, then you've already shown him that you are unlawful and it's not a far stretch for him to feel that you are dangerous and be justified in the disarming.

However, in a walking down the street situation where you have clearly not violated the law, they have no reason to detain you, and therefore no justification to continue the detention once you've asked to leave.

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awesome job!
xd-out

I listened to the audio. So.... They just stood there and looked at you for a while and then refused to answer when you asked if you were free to go and then you left?

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

I listened to the audio. So.... They just stood there and looked at you for a while and then refused to answer when you asked if you were free to go and then you left?

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up until that point every time I asked to leave they said no I was not free to go. So at the end when I asked and they didn't answer, I asked again and he still just looked at me, so I said I'm going to leave now, he didn't say no, so I left.

I don't carry ID in the first place. There is really no requirement to.

Jarody said:

I don't carry ID in the first place. There is really no requirement to.

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I always carry my CWP in case I walk by a school or something like that and need the CWP to be within 1000 feet.

I posted a comment on your Youtube post, but didn't have enough space to say what I really wanted, so I'll say it here.

I think you handled the situation very well, and I only have a few minor, hopefully constructive, criticisms. You did as well as anyone could be expected to when they are being intimidated by the police. One thing that I find very helpful when dealing with these detainments is to not ask open-ended or simple answer questions. Questions such as, "Is there any law requiring me to...?", leaves them too much room to weasel around and not give any answers in your favor. It is far better to ask the question in order to force a specific answer. "Can you name the statute that requires me to...?" is a more apt question, because it forces them to give a concession. It's even better when you know the specific law being involved, and you are able to quote that statute. If you do know the law, and they are insisting that they know something different, you should politely, but firmly, state the facts and your position. This will help to give you the upper hand in the intimidation game. They rely on tactics to put you in uncomfortable situations and to fill you with doubt. Prolonged detentions and repetitive questions are used to coerce information from you, and to make you doubt what you know or believe about the law.

Escalating the detainment, as you did by asking for a supervisor or by invoking your 5th A. right to silence, will only serve to prolong and confuse the situation. I'm not saying that you shouldn't invoke your 5th, but you should do it only if you intend on not actually speaking any further. If they had made any motions toward you that were consistent with an arrest, such as disarming you, searching your person or putting restraints on you, then that would be the prudent time to use the 5th. You were still in a situation where verbal dialogue was beneficial and had no reason to roll out the 5th. You can, of course, refuse to answer any specific question at any time. Further, asking for a supervisor is a good way to get held down even longer. Had they actually called for one, it could have been as much as an hour before one showed up. They are all getting paid no matter how long the detainment takes. They are not wasting any of their time, only yours. And don't forget that they are all playing for the same team, so there is no reason to expect that a supervisor would have treated you any differently than the officers who stopped you on the street.

You had established fairly early on that they had no RAS to stop you in the first place. About the time that they started in with the "your papers please, we don't know who you are" spiel, you should have politely excused yourself from the conversation, and walked off. You did eventually do just that, and I commend you for it, but it could have happened about 10 minutes earlier if you had not allowed them to bait you into their game. I doubt they would have stopped you at any point during the detainment if you had simply stated that you were ending the contact, and were returning to go about your lawful business. No crime + No RAS = No legal stop. They would have been in big doo-doo if they had tried to physically stop you. Just make sure that you have plenty of room to leave when you do, because even brushing up against an officer's shirt sleeve will allow them to arrest you for battery, as was done to a person in New Hampshire not so long ago.

Overall I think you did great, and the most important thing was that you walked away from it without giving them anything that they wanted. You won, and lived to tell about it. Congrats! I will be moving to New Hampshire early next year, and I look forward to OCing all over that state, as well as Maine and Vermont. Perhaps we'll run into each other some time if I ever find myself in your neck of the woods.

awesome job boyscout! listed to audio, and you gave them a lesson on the laws. have you heard back from cheif of police yet? wondering what he said.

xd-out

I sent out another email to the chief and deputy chiefs today. So far no response from them. I also emailed the State Attorney Generals office.

boyscout399 said:

I sent out another email to the chief and deputy chiefs today. So far no response from them. I also emailed the State Attorney Generals office.

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good for you! hopefully attorney general will be some help! keep me informed

xd-out

Great Job BoyScout.. send me a PM with your address and I will send you a free GUNS SAVE LIVES challenge coin (normally $15.00)
[video=youtube;DM34SC2xBQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM34SC2xBQE [/video]
Ed

Yep I agree a very good response the the questioning. I also think I agree about waiting on the remaining silent statement. I think I plan to wait to use it when I know I will hold to it. I will just say something like I won't comment on that, or just say nothing. Or just turn the question back on them. I'm a little unsure about just walking away, unless they verbally say they have no RAS. Then if I know have them recorded, I would say something like then I'm ending this conversation have a good day. Turn around and start to walk away. Then if they stop or resist you leaving, you have very good grounds for a case against the officer personally and the department for a violation of your rights.

Excellent job! Keep us informed.

Here is the police log from the incident:

10-29156 1641 Initiated - WEAPONS Services Rendered
Location/Address: 210 ALFRED ST @ 48 UNION ST
Unit: 115
Arvd-16:41:00 Clrd-17:06:31
Unit: 112
Disp-16:42:52 Arvd-16:42:55 Clrd-17:06:24
Narrative:
Officer Rousseau and Officer Cawood off with a male subject
carrying a firearm on a duty belt.
Narrative:
Male subject wearing a red t shirt and blue jeans.
Narrative:
Officer Rousseau advising that the male subject is refusing
to give his name or identity. That male subject is
requesting to speak to the shift supervisor.
Narrative:
Lt. Parker advised. Reqeusting that Officers call him
direct
Biddeford Police Department Media Friendly Log Page: 23
Dispatch Log From: 08/18/2010 Thru: 08/19/2010 0700 - 0700 Printed: 08/19/2010
Narrative:
From ACO he saw young Male walking down the street. Red
shirt and jeans was just walking down the street. Appeared
he had a duty belt on with a gun and holster and some other
equipment. Was on ELm ST by Hannaford. Seen about 20 minutes
ago heading south.
Narrative:
Status check on units, all set
Narrative:
Per Lt. Parker, the subject has the right to carry that
weapon. If the subject were to pull the weapon out, that
would change the circumstances. Subject was allowed to
continue on his way.
Narrative:
Per Lt. Parker male has been released. Description is a
white male about 5'10 to 6 feet tall and slim build. He has
short blonde hair and is wearing glasses. He was wearing a
brown t shirt, blue jeans, and black van shoes. He has a
glock on his right hip and two folding knives in each of his
front jeans pocket. He also has two magazines for the glock
and a flashlight on his hip. He is carrying a digital
recorder, paperwork in his right back pocket, and a pouch
with a cell phone.

Must have gotten the wrong guy.

Initial report said "red T-shirt" - after the fact says "brown T-shirt"

Two officers did NOT exactly do as indicated to their report. Completely different flavor.

Were you really carrying four (4) folding knives?
"two folding knives in [highlight]each[/highlight] of his front jeans pocket - 2 X 2 = 4

Grapeshot said:

Must have gotten the wrong guy.

Initial report said "red T-shirt" - after the fact says "brown T-shirt"

Two officers did NOT exactly do as indicated to their report. Completely different flavor.

Were you really carrying four (4) folding knives?
"two folding knives in [highlight]each[/highlight] of his front jeans pocket - 2 X 2 = 4

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One folding knife per pocket, and that "cell phone in a cell phone holder" was a leatherman in a leatherman case.

boyscout399 said:

I was detained today by Biddeford PD while walking down the street. I asserted my rights and was held for about 15 minutes.

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Well, maybe not detained and held.