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Thinking of hitting up AB&E Friday and Monday Evening

B

Bikenut

Guest
I realize that it is public property and they have NO right to tell persons carrying firearms not to come. What I was implying was the fact that by telling us we are not wanted there, and by the City Council creating a "resolution", why should WE support them by paying to get in, buying stuff, spending money in businesses that don't want us, paying for parking, filling up at their gas stations (in other words pumping more money into their city that they don't deserve.)

I do think SOME people should go there, just not in very large groups (IMO.) I also don't think people should OC on their own. Go with at least 1+ OCer's for backup/witness purposes. DON'T FORGET YOUR RECORDER(S)!!!

Because if OC'ers don't show up Royal Oak's 'resolution' and the council's disdain and condemnation of OC'ers, the negative media coverage, and the vitriol spewed by citizens................ wins. And OC turns a victory into a loss in the eyes and minds of every municipality, anti citizen, and even legislators. Yes, legislators are watching all this carefully.

I understand the perspective of not wanting to support the anti's with OC'ers money..... but for OC'ers to not show up after winning such a long and contested battle sends the message that those who fought have no true conviction for their cause and therefor have no credibility... and there is really no reason to pay any attention to them since they are, in effect, a paper tiger.

And municipalities, citizens with opinions, legislators (especially legislators!) do not concern themselves with paper tigers.

Now is the time to follow through!
 

stainless1911

Banned
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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Yes, follow through. With recorders. The best situation available to us is to show up in large numbers, but not in large groups. This isn't over yet. The antis will vigorously peruse their agendas up to and including if possible, the outlawing of OC. It is vitally important that we be able to show through facts, that OC does not equal blood in the streets, or the loss of revenue. An increase in revenue because of this would only work to our favor.

The antis are just as passionate, and vigilant as we are.
 

jt59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Central South Sound
Yes, follow through. With recorders. The best situation available to us is to show up in large numbers, but not in large groups. This isn't over yet. The antis will vigorously peruse their agendas up to and including if possible, the outlawing of OC. It is vitally important that we be able to show through facts, that OC does not equal blood in the streets, or the loss of revenue. An increase in revenue because of this would only work to our favor.

The antis are just as passionate, and vigilant as we are.


Just MO....I am following this from WA, but was born and raised in MI (if that actually matters)....but I just want to encourage you to attend this event you have fought so hard to be allowed.....sure, make it a non-event...but make it there....Big numbers, not big groups is the perfect way to approach this!

I agree completely with these comments...the first step is to win the legal issue, and that you have done....at least as important is to demonstrate that OC'rs are pretty much regular folks....bring your wives, kids, family! The point in the public display, is to gain credibility and change the public perception. It will make the next legal battle easier....

It's like getting the right to vote, and then not exercising the right to vote,

Remember the motto here, ""A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost".....

Take you recorders if you want, but take a few (hundred) brochere's to hand out too.
 
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Bronson

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Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
it wouldn't be any different than a business telling you can't carry in their store and they don't want your business if you're going to carry.

But would you shop in those stores if the law said they could not deny you service?

That's a little like saying that blacks should have just ate at their own, segregated, lunch counters instead of working for the ability to eat in the whites only places where their money was not wanted.

Just my opinion.

Bronson
 

RenegadeMarine

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
79
Location
Fraser, Michigan, USA
If I recall correctly AB&E is a non-profit organization, so the proceeds will go to charities and not Witz's pocket. If we do not go the anti's and media will have a field day with it. They will say things like "See they don't care about anyone else but themselves and their rights" and "It was just a publicity stunt to prove a point" etc. We do not want this to happen because we all know that is not true. If you were planning on going before by all means pack up your family and go have a good time! Lets not make the charities suffer because of a few ignorant politicians! We can deal with them at another time.


Witz piss.gif
Drinkwine
Patterson
 

lil_freak_66

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Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,799
Location
Mason, Michigan
If I recall correctly AB&E is a non-profit organization, so the proceeds will go to charities and not Witz's pocket. If we do not go the anti's and media will have a field day with it. They will say things like "See they don't care about anyone else but themselves and their rights" and "It was just a publicity stunt to prove a point" etc. We do not want this to happen because we all know that is not true. If you were planning on going before by all means pack up your family and go have a good time! Lets not make the charities suffer because of a few ignorant politicians! We can deal with them at another time.


Witz View attachment 3635
Drinkwine
Patterson

+1

I think we should show up in large numbers,not large groups,bringing the family and friends along
 

RandyK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
60
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
I was at every single city council meeting that pertained to fixing the contract, fought just as hard as everybody else. This was never about bringing guns to the festival! It was about getting a illegal clause removed from the contract. That mission was accomplished. We won! The media has moved on to something else. They aren't going to know if one OCer shows up or 100 do.

The fact of the matter is just because firearms are allowed doesn't meen this is an OC friendly event. I think if the anti's go to a place expecting to see guns and don't see any makes more of impact then going there and rubbing it in there faces. Hopefully they realize that they made a big f'ing deal out of nothing. Showing up and getting noticed just gives them fuel for the fire. I you wanted to make an impact you should have came to some of the meetings.

Why would I go to a crowded place were I know im not welcome and could be harrassed? No thanks, ill go someplace were I can have fun that weekend.
 
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coffee4meplz

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Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
56
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
This was never about bringing guns to the festival! It was about getting a illegal clause removed from the contract.

Well put RandyK......That is what I have been telling everyone, It was never about Open Carry at the ABE but about an illegal clause in a Government contract and "MOC" not the NRA was the ones willing to stand up for the firearm rights for all gun owners!

If you go to ABE, go to have a good time....Don't go just to show off your new hardware!
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Well put RandyK......That is what I have been telling everyone, It was never about Open Carry at the ABE but about an illegal clause in a Government contract and "MOC" not the NRA was the ones willing to stand up for the firearm rights for all gun owners!

If you go to ABE, go to have a good time....Don't go just to show off your new hardware!

We discussed it, but never involved the NRA.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
I was at every single city council meeting that pertained to fixing the contract, fought just as hard as everybody else. This was never about bringing guns to the festival! It was about getting a illegal clause removed from the contract. That mission was accomplished. We won! The media has moved on to something else. They aren't going to know if one OCer shows up or 100 do.

The fact of the matter is just because firearms are allowed doesn't meen this is an OC friendly event. I think if the anti's go to a place expecting to see guns and don't see any makes more of impact then going there and rubbing it in there faces. Hopefully they realize that they made a big f'ing deal out of nothing. Showing up and getting noticed just gives them fuel for the fire. I you wanted to make an impact you should have came to some of the meetings.

Why would I go to a crowded place were I know im not welcome and could be harrassed? No thanks, ill go someplace were I can have fun that weekend.

Your, and everyone who was involved in the Royal Oak thing, efforts are appreciated more than you know. By more people than you are aware of. Many of us are proud of all of you... and rightfully so!

Please understand that there are quite a few people who may not have been involved in Royal Oak but are devoting a lot of their time working with other cities and villages all over Michigan with illegal ordinances. Some of these people work entirely on their own and attend council meetings all by themselves while OC'ing without asking for help from the OC community. Not because help isn't available when asked for but because they believe that what they are doing is the right thing and they are willing to stand up all alone and get it done.

The following is offered as explanation... not directed at any individuals or groups...

We here in the OC community understand it is never about guns but is all about taking government to task and requiring them to live by the same laws we have to live by.

But the anti's and the general public view the issue differently. They view it through the lens of ... guns.. guns... those scary guns.

Now having won this victory to simply walk away and not attend would be, to the anti mind, an admission of everything they accused us of... grandstanding, pushing an agenda, looking for lawsuits, and every other outlandish accusation seen so far. It would turn a victory into a surrender to the anti agenda. They would claim those macho breast beating gun nuts didn't have the courage to face the public at the festival itself... it would be viewed as a sign of weakness and OC would become something to be mocked.

To the general uninformed public not attending would leave them confused and wondering... why, if this was so important, didn't the OC'ers attend after winning the fight to be able to legally attend?

And both of those groups would begin to dismiss OC and OC'ers as paper tigers not worthy of respect or consideration.

Yes the real truth was this was about bringing Royal Oak into compliance with the law. But to everyone not directly involved in it the media's portrayal of a bunch of gun nuts pushing their 2nd Amendment is the lie they heard/read.

Also.... going into a crowded place where an OC'er knows he is not welcome and could be harassed is exactly what we do... many of us do this every day, day after day everywhere we go, during our daily lives. And it is what the folks did when attending Royal Oak council meetings. It is how OC will become normalized.

Attending AB&E while OC'ing isn't rubbing anything in anyone's face.... it is exercising the right to bear arms and doing it in a legal manner. Exactly what was fought for by everyone standing in those meetings. Attending AB&E shows the people that OC'ers believe what they fought for was worth fighting for.

Having said all that.... this is a free country. Each individual has the right to decide to attend AB&E or not to attend. For what ever reason(s) that person may have. And no one has the right to disparage that choice. And I, for one, will not do that.
 
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RandyK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
60
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
I understand what you are saying 100% and you have a very valid point of view. This can be accomplished without meeting up in large groups or OCing for the first time just because you can. Go to enjoy arts, beats, and eats not because you want to prove a point.
 

eastmeyers

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Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
It is a fun event. And for everyone who plans to attend and does not plan on drinking and whom has a CPL I encourage you to exercise your 2nd amendment rights to OC or CC. Although this is not just because of our battle with the city to remove an illegal clause within its contract, but because I encourage everyone to legally carry whenever possible!
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

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Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
NON CPL HOLDERS ARE ALLOWED at A.B.&E. (I think)

It is a fun event. And for everyone who plans to attend and does not plan on drinking and whom has a CPL I encourage you to exercise your 2nd amendment rights to OC or CC. Although this is not just because of our battle with the city to remove an illegal clause within its contract, but because I encourage everyone to legally carry whenever possible!

Hi - My understanding is for this event "only" non - cpl holders will be allowed to Open Carry if they wish. Per heads of both OCSD & ROPD. I assume this is a compromise since they insisted that it was a "giant beer tent" so no sidearms allowed, when called on that and informed we would be video taping any under 18 yrs entering said "beer tent" and handing off the video to the proper authorities this compromise came into play. That's my understanding I could be wrong but I believe the S.E. MI. Coordinator said "OC will be allowed for non-cpl holders at this event".
 
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stainless1911

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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
This is more than just Michigan too. This guy stopped me today from Indiana wanting to know what the real story was with ABE, so I let him know. He diddn't know about OCDO either, but I suspect he will be checking us out soon. :)
 

army74

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Pontiac, Michigan, USA
Abe

I planned on attending lon g before this isuue came up. I attended ABE in pontiac multiple times. If your wondering Mr.Witz does make profits from parking, food etc
 
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