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Thread: This is goofy - VA is an OC state but does not observe the Castle Doctrine.

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    Regular Member floyd patriot's Avatar
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    This is goofy - VA is an OC state but does not observe the Castle Doctrine.

    Maybe I'm missin' somethin', y'all tell me. Virginia is an open carry state, but does not observe the Castle Doctrine. I can walk the streets with a loaded sidearm on my hip in full view, but can't defend my home against intruders with deadly force unless I can prove intent to harm.
    What's wrong with this picture?

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    You need to attend some seminars on the use of deadly force in Virginia. This is not a flame, merely a suggestion. Virginia is actually a very good state where the use of deadly force is concerned. The one area where I would like to see a change is in the civil part of the law. If a victim is forced to use deadly force in their or someone else's defense and it is found to be excusable, then they should be immune from any subsequent civil actions resulting from this.

    There are five felony crimes which can be met with deadly force should the need arise: murder, robbery, rape, arson, and burglary. Now as far as defending your home, if someone breaks into your home during the day, they are not a burglar; they are a trespasser so the law views them and any actions you might take against them in a different light. However at night, that same person breaking into your house is no longer a trespasser.., he is now a burglar.

    If you awaken to someone in your house and you shout at them to get out and they flee, they are not a threat to you. However, if you shout at them and they proceed to come at you or someone else in your family, guess what they are now?

    INAL so I highly advise you to attend some seminars on this topic, get your hands on a few books (The Virginia Gun Owner's Guide is one of them), and do some research on this. Then talk to an attorney if you still have questions.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member floyd patriot's Avatar
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    Thank you, Sir! I will hit Barnes and Noble's site and look for the book. I did not take your comment as a flame or as derogatory. On the contrary, I appreciate your sharing with me your knowledge.

    FP

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post

    Now as far as defending your home, if someone breaks into your home during the day, they are not a burglar; they are a trespasser so the law views them and any actions you might take against them in a different light. However at night, that same person breaking into your house is no longer a trespasser.., he is now a burglar.
    SouthernBoy, can you cite this? Breaking and entering with intent to steal or commit a crime is burglary. Why should the time of day matter? Is it because of a generalization that most people are going to be home in the evening as opposed to the day?

    Trying to understand...

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by floyd patriot View Post
    Thank you, Sir! I will hit Barnes and Noble's site and look for the book. I did not take your comment as a flame or as derogatory. On the contrary, I appreciate your sharing with me your knowledge.

    FP
    The Virginia Gun Owners Guide is available on the www.VCDL.org site in the store section http://www.vcdl.org/static/store.html for $14.00. Also if you are not already a member they are a good grassroots organization looking out for gun rights in VA.

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floyd patriot View Post
    Thank you, Sir! I will hit Barnes and Noble's site and look for the book. I did not take your comment as a flame or as derogatory. On the contrary, I appreciate your sharing with me your knowledge.

    FP
    The book is available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

    - Barnes & Noble Link

    - Amazon Link

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sol View Post
    SouthernBoy, can you cite this? Breaking and entering with intent to steal or commit a crime is burglary. Why should the time of day matter? Is it because of a generalization that most people are going to be home in the evening as opposed to the day?

    Trying to understand...
    This derives from the historical Common law definition of burglary which is :

    The breaking and entering the house of another in the night time, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felony be actually committed or not.

    John

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    This derives from the historical Common law definition of burglary which is :

    The breaking and entering the house of another in the night time, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felony be actually committed or not.
    John
    Also suggest you search out past posts from User, who is an attorney. He has posted many times on the historic basis of the castle doctrine in Virginia.

    This was a particularly interesting thread, which was about a Castle Doctrine bill introduced during the last session of the General Assembly. It died in the Senate's Courts of Justice committee.

    TFred

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It died in the Senate's Courts of Justice committee.
    Talk about contradictions!
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Talk about contradictions!
    Yes, an irony that I noted in the original thread.

    I should also point out that User was not disappointed that this bill did not pass. He still holds the view that the current protection afforded under Common Law is better than anything we've seen lately in the legislative process.

    TFred

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sol View Post
    SouthernBoy, can you cite this? Breaking and entering with intent to steal or commit a crime is burglary. Why should the time of day matter? Is it because of a generalization that most people are going to be home in the evening as opposed to the day?

    Trying to understand...
    My cite is the two seminars I attended on the use of deadly force which were conducted by an attorney here in Virgina. And your presumption is pretty much the reason why. It goes back to 1607 here in Virginia.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Also suggest you search out past posts from User, who is an attorney. He has posted many times on the historic basis of the castle doctrine in Virginia.

    This was a particularly interesting thread, which was about a Castle Doctrine bill introduced during the last session of the General Assembly. It died in the Senate's Courts of Justice committee.

    TFred
    This is the attorney who conducted the two seminars I attended and I highly recommend anyone doing the same. User is a regular member on this website and offers very interesting information. I generally take the position of posing a question then shutting my mouth to listen.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Yes, an irony that I noted in the original thread.

    I should also point out that User was not disappointed that this bill did not pass. He still holds the view that the current protection afforded under Common Law is better than anything we've seen lately in the legislative process.

    TFred
    Yes he does. I seem to think he was in favor of some sort of remedy to victims who were later sued for their defensive actions. Perhaps he'll weigh in on this. I think his take is that of being very supportive of Virginia's affirmative defense for cases of self-defense. I believe he sees this as a superior defense in the long run. I would love to hear him elaborate on this again.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 08-19-2010 at 01:49 PM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floyd patriot View Post
    Thank you, Sir! I will hit Barnes and Noble's site and look for the book. I did not take your comment as a flame or as derogatory. On the contrary, I appreciate your sharing with me your knowledge.

    FP
    The one thing I question and take a little issue with in the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide is the fact that the book stresses that one should hold off and avoid the use of deadly force to the last moment. While on the surface, this would seem to be the right approach, it can get someone injured or killed as they play mental charades as to whether or not they should respond with a deadly weapon. This IS thin ice, but one can take it too far and to the point where they might wind up dead. Remember, bad people have no compunction about hurting good people. It's the good people who make the mistake of hesitating when they should act and can pay the price of their mistake with their lives.

    Perhaps the book is just trying to alleviate possible legal entanglements.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member floyd patriot's Avatar
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    All very good and informative responses. Thank you all, gentlemen!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    The book is available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

    - Amazon Link
    Does this Amazon link include the OCDO referral code?

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One thing that concerns me about these books is that they don't have an annual update to reflect the new laws each year.

    They should change from a hard copy book to a cheaper-but-annual subscription based reference service that they can update in a more timely fashion.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    One thing that concerns me about these books is that they don't have an annual update to reflect the new laws each year.
    The VAGOG does get updated every legislative session, on the author's website. In addition, there's new print editions every couple of years that incorporate the website updates.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    My cite is the two seminars I attended on the use of deadly force which were conducted by an attorney here in Virgina. And your presumption is pretty much the reason why. It goes back to 1607 here in Virginia.
    Actually it goes all the way back to the Old Testament.

    Exodus 22:2-3 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him(It is daytime), there shall be guilt for his bloodshed...
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-19-2010 at 05:53 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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